Book of Enoch?

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

The same Wernher Von Braun who headed NASA space program.

Yeah, that be him. To this day, no one has officially questioned why our government took hundreds of Nazis, not investigating them, many committing war crimes; giving them a free pass and clean slate, putting them to work for us in leadership roles, not just in rocketry and space, but in many fields of science. They were rescued from the Nuremberg trials.

The Russians did the same thing, but were not so kind and generous. No one investigated this bazaar event officially to my knowledge. 

If the above statements are true and accurate; what gives?

[Dennis1209]

23 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

...and did you read about "operation paperclip"..? All that German 'scientific experimentation' could not go to waste; and later the deliberate injecting of ordinary people undergoing simple medical procedures in the late 40s. Oh, the injections were a nuclear isotope experiment - yes, they got very sick and some died. And of course the army was air-seeding the west with ticks infected with Lyme's disease. Check out Plumb Island and its history.

I could go on, it is all common knowledge.

Our government has done some pretty shady and horrible things that have come to light over time. It's not conspiracy anymore but factual. To name just a few of many: The government and the military, intentionally and knowingly exposed hundreds of troops to high levels of radiation [near atomic blasts]; to see and record what levels and effects it would have on their near term performance and longevity. 

As a child living in St. Louis, MO., we were aerial sprayed with a dangerous and toxic substance; supposedly to chart wind and radiation contamination, spread and exposure. Turns out what they sprayed was extremely dangerous to health.

As kids, it was our patriotic duty to send in our baby teeth for science. Never did hear what the factual reason was; living so far away from the Nevada test sites? I'm sure that wasn't innocent either.

[BlessedCreator]

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

You'll have to provide examples.  One one hand we have your posts, on the other we have biblical scholars like Dr. Michael S. Heiser.  Jude calls Enoch a preacher of righteousness and a prophet.  He didn't use the words lightly.  Should the book of Jude now be excluded from the bible?

I'm not speaking against Enoch the prophet nor the book of Jude, I am speaking against the legitimacy of the book of Enoch actually being from the prophet Himself.

 

 

 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, BlessedCreator said:

I'm not speaking against Enoch the prophet nor the book of Jude, I am speaking against the legitimacy of the book of Enoch actually being from the prophet Himself.

Peter and Jude used the book of Enoch as prophetic and Enoch as a prophet.  Jesus quoted Enoch in Matthew.  Should the books of 2 Peter, Jude and Matthew be excluded from the bible?  Should the Apocrypha be included in the bible as it was in 405 AD?  It was another 1000 years before the protestant bible took shape.

[JohnR7]

On 11/3/2020 at 12:27 PM, Jayne said:

I believe that the actual and real Enoch from Genesis did say the words that Jude said he did.

The point is that Enoch looked into the future and saw the coming of the Lord.  This is something he saw almost 4,000 years ago. So this teaching is not new. 

At one time under the Old Testament the book of Enoch could have been considered scripture. But that is under the old covenant and not the new. 

There were several copies of the book of Enoch found with the dead sea scrolls. 

[Jayne]

17 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

The point is that Enoch looked into the future and saw the coming of the Lord.  This is something he saw almost 4,000 years ago. So this teaching is not new. 

At one time under the Old Testament the book of Enoch could have been considered scripture. But that is under the old covenant and not the new. 

There were several copies of the book of Enoch found with the dead sea scrolls. 

Have you read the book of 1 Enoch?  It is not written by the Enoch of the Bible.

• It says that Noah hid while the angels built the ark.  The Bible says otherwise.
• It says that an angel came down with a paper and ink and wrote/taught mankind how to sin.  The Bible says that sin came through Adam.  After him - sin was just our nature.  An angel did not use paper and ink to teach Cain how to kill his brother.
• It says that when Noah was born his eye glowed and filled the room with light and scared his father Lamech.  Lamech went to find and did find Enoch living with the fallen angels and to ask about his strange son with full speech and long white hair at birth. The Bible says Enoch was gone way before then and WAS NEVER FOUND.
• It says that the angels were the one offended by mankind's evil before the Flood and that they had to inform God about it.  And the God told Michael to cleanse the earth from sin.  Angels can't DO that!

It's mindboggling to me that people don't get it.

And the Dead Sea Scrolls?  It was a library - there was lots of stuff there other than scripture.

That would be like me today going to the public library to check out a Bible and passing by the children's section and seeing Dr. Seuss's Cat in the Hat......

......and then claiming that because they are in the same library that the Cat in the Hat must be scripture.

What is it about the book of 1 Enoch that you all believe to be true?  

Again - have you read it?  I have - twice.

[JohnR7]

7 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Have you read the book of 1 Enoch? 

I am talking about what we read in Jude. My point was that Enoch lived 4,000 years ago so there is nothing new about the teaching of the coming of the Lord. 

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them: “Behold, the Lord is coming with myriads of His holy ones to execute judgment on everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of every ungodly act of wickedness and every harsh word spoken against Him by ungodly sinners.” (Jude 1:14) 

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil shows us truth can be mixed with lies to deceive people. I do not know anything about the book of Enoch, I am just going by what is in our Bible. 

We read in Genesis 22:4 about Abraham: "On the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off". This has a literal meaning of course, but also we know that Abraham understood that God would make the sacrifice for him. Even Abraham reasoned Jesus would rise from the dead. "Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead" (Hebrews 11:19) 

Lots of people in the past and in the future see the day, time & age we live in right now. They say this is the time of the great harvest as the Kingdoms of this world are  becoming the Kingdom of God. If this is not what is going on then we need to go back to the drawing board and start all over again from the beginning. 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

Enoch was written to us here now at the end.

Enoch describes the courses of the stars and sun and moon, the globe earth model can not compete with what is described in Enoch.

Let us read just two passages from Enoch:

 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked are to be removed. Enoch 1:1

The whole order of the stars shall be concealed from the sinners, and they shall error concerning them, and take them as gods. Enoch 80:7-8

And one passage from Jude:

Yes, Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of [the wicked] saying:

Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints to do doom upon all flesh.

Jude 1:14-15  Enoch chapters 1, 10 and 80.

 

-------

There is a 1st Enoch, and that is not the book.

The book is just Enoch and one would see the above passages in it.

Edited November 6, 2020 by Desopixi Seilynam
not 1 Enoch, the book is called just Enoch

[Jayne]

I give up.  I just slam give up.

Ya'll believe what you wish.  I'll go with the Bible.

The Book of Enoch was NOT written by the Enoch of the Bible.  It was written between the Old and New Testament times by unknown authors.

It boggles my mind.

1 Enoch and Enoch are the same book.  I referred to it as 1 Enoch as someone else referred to it that way first.

I call it Enoch.  I call it heresy and lies.  You all just keep on believing in it.  I seem to not be able to make anyone understand at all.

Edited November 6, 2020 by Jayne

[Starise]

3 hours ago, Jayne said:

I give up.  I just slam give up.

Ya'll believe what you wish.  I'll go with the Bible.

The Book of Enoch was NOT written by the Enoch of the Bible.  It was written between the Old and New Testament times by unknown authors.

It boggles my mind.

1 Enoch and Enoch are the same book.  I referred to it as 1 Enoch as someone else referred to it that way first.

I call it Enoch.  I call it heresy and lies.  You all just keep on believing in it.  I seem to not be able to make anyone understand at all.

I actually think you made wonderful points Jayne. Caused me to think about more investigation into the subject.

I read the newspaper sometimes too. I will ALWAYS defer to scripture. I think Enoch is a fascinating book though.