DIVINE GIFT or CARNAL CONCEIT?

[Marathoner]

On 1/1/2021 at 11:43 AM, David1701 said:

A genuine prophet will speak the message that God has given him, at the right time, to the right people, as the Holy Spirit leads him.  Of course, the Lord can do this directly; but, he wants to involve his people in what he is doing, just as he does with evangelists (he could simply spread the gospel in dreams and visions, if he wanted to; and sometimes he does) and other callings.

Why do we need preachers/teachers, when we have the completed Bible and the Holy Spirit within us?  It is because God has set them, in the assembly, with the ability, motivation and grace to carry out their callings, for the edification of the body of Christ.

Whomever the Lord chooses He deals with as sons and daughters, bringing us low and acquainting us with suffering in this world. At times we are shipwrecked, wondering where the next meal will come from; we are subjected to tribulation in no small measure, learning that even a fool who holds his tongue is accounted wise. 

The pride which rises up is not from the elect --- we are scourged by the Lord --- but rather from the envious who look upon them and say, "Who is this one to speak for the Lord? He is nothing, why should we pay heed to this vagabond? We are blessed and increased with goods but this man is cast away, ignorant and knowing nothing." 

The teacher, the preacher, the shepherd, and witnesses of the Lord are humbled by the Lord's discipline and so we learn to seal our lips because we have seen the end of our works in this flesh. As the Preacher wrote with much wisdom there is much grief. What we find now are the envious who gnash their teeth upon those the Lord sends to build up His Body and equip us all for service. They point to the charlatans and the false and are smug in their assurance that no one is sent by Christ to lift up others. It's grieving.  

Edited March 9, 2021 by Marathoner

[Whyme]

 As John’s disciples were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed swayed by the wind?  If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings’ palaces. Then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet.  This is the one about whom it is written:

“‘I will send my messenger ahead of you,
    who will prepare your way before you.’^[c]

¹¹ Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

[Paul James]

This is an interesting verse:

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you" (John 14:26).

Notice that Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us, He will remind you of all the things that Jesus has already said to His disciples when He was with them in person.   All this is recorded in the four Gospels, and the letters of the Apostles.  

Just in case someone disputes concerning the Apostles' letters, all the material in them are further expositions on what Jesus had already said, and Paul's teaching was thoroughly tested out by the Bereans who searched the Scriptures (Moses and the Prophets) to make sure that what he was teaching was absolutely true and consistent with the Scriptures.   Paul's letters are the result of the personal training from the ascended Jesus during his three years in Arabia.

What the John's Gospel verse tells me, is that the Holy Spirit brings to remembrance what has already been written in the Scriptures.   He has not come to give "new" revelation.  Therefore any "prophet" who teaches new revelation purporting to be from the Holy Spirit, is totally false, because a true prophet under the anointing of the Holy Spirit will speak of only what has already been written in the Old and New Testament Scriptures.

This is why we should never take any prophecy at face value.  Paul teaches that when prophecies are given, they must be judged, and the only way to judge a prophecy is to "search the Scriptures whether these things are really true".   If the prophecy is not consistent with the written Scriptures, it must be immediately rejected to prevent a spirit of divination attached to it attacking the listeners.

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Marathoner said:

Whomever the Lord chooses He deals with as sons and daughters, bringing us low and acquainting us with suffering in this world. At times we are shipwrecked, wondering where the next meal will come from; we are subjected to tribulation in no small measure, learning that even a fool who holds his tongue is accounted wise. 

The pride which rises up is not from the elect --- we are scourged by the Lord --- but rather from the envious who look upon them and say, "Who is this one to speak for the Lord? He is nothing, why should we pay heed to this vagabond? We are blessed and increased with goods but this man is cast away, ignorant and knowing nothing." 

The teacher, the preacher, the shepherd, and witnesses of the Lord are humbled by the Lord's discipline and so we learn to seal our lips because we have seen the end of our works in this flesh. As the Preacher wrote with much wisdom there is much grief. What we find now are the envious who gnash their teeth upon those the Lord sends to build up His Body and equip us all for service. They point to the charlatans and the false and are smug in their assurance that no one is sent by Christ to lift up others. It's grieving.  

Well said, brother. 

[Marathoner]

Who is the prophet? He is not a soothsayer, one who makes a living by tickling the ears of those given over to lust and the petty concerns of this world. The prophet is not an oracle after the custom of pagans and the unbelievers for the Lord is not served by human hands, nor does He dwell in structures raised by human hands. 

The prophet does not choose himself. He does not say to God, "Send me! Send me because I am fit for Your purpose, Lord." Who among men is good? Who among us can stand before the Lord and exalt ourselves as judge? The clay does not dictate to the Potter and yet there are some who exalt themselves in such a way, sitting in judgment of the Lord and those whom He has sent. It has been this way for thousands of years and the present day is no exception. 

It is for their sake that the Almighty sends forth His witnesses who are the prophets. God sends His witness to the stiff-necked and the hard-hearted, who today are those who resist the Holy Spirit whom Christ sent into the world to reason with all men. Yes, even some who are called by the name of the Lord because judgment begins in His house.

The love, mercy, and long suffering of the Lord is why the Almighty sends forth His witnesses into this world. God is not mocked at any time; He will not withhold anything good on account of those who love falsehood instead of truth, puffing themselves up as the keepers of His Word when they are wretched, blind, and bankrupt in spirit. Christ has mercy upon these which is why, before the foundation of the world, He chose sons and daughters to scourge and lay low...

Teaching these humility, patience, kindness, meekness, to be quick to listen and slow to speak through suffering and trial. The Lord chooses His witness, the witness does not choose himself in any way. Better to suffer in truth than grow fat with lies, my friends. 

As for His precious ones? The Lord sends preachers to pluck them from the world when they are ripe for the harvest... teachers to build them up in the knowledge of the Holy One... shepherds to serve their needs and watch over their welfare... and witnesses to encourage them daily. Those who are sent by the Lord are sent to serve His sheep, not be served by them.     

Edited March 10, 2021 by Marathoner

[popsthebuilder]

On 3/9/2021 at 4:47 PM, Paul James said:

This is an interesting verse:

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you" (John 14:26).

Notice that Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us, He will remind you of all the things that Jesus has already said to His disciples when He was with them in person.   All this is recorded in the four Gospels, and the letters of the Apostles.  

Just in case someone disputes concerning the Apostles' letters, all the material in them are further expositions on what Jesus had already said, and Paul's teaching was thoroughly tested out by the Bereans who searched the Scriptures (Moses and the Prophets) to make sure that what he was teaching was absolutely true and consistent with the Scriptures.   Paul's letters are the result of the personal training from the ascended Jesus during his three years in Arabia.

What the John's Gospel verse tells me, is that the Holy Spirit brings to remembrance what has already been written in the Scriptures.   He has not come to give "new" revelation.  Therefore any "prophet" who teaches new revelation purporting to be from the Holy Spirit, is totally false, because a true prophet under the anointing of the Holy Spirit will speak of only what has already been written in the Old and New Testament Scriptures.

This is why we should never take any prophecy at face value.  Paul teaches that when prophecies are given, they must be judged, and the only way to judge a prophecy is to "search the Scriptures whether these things are really true".   If the prophecy is not consistent with the written Scriptures, it must be immediately rejected to prevent a spirit of divination attached to it attacking the listeners.

....did you notice the word "and" in the verse you referenced?

 

Surely any new thing will be in accord with the teachings of the Christ of GOD. I would venture to say that such a thing would too be in accord with the selfless conscience...

 

peace

Edited April 7, 2021 by popsthebuilder

[Paul James]

4 hours ago, popsthebuilder said:

....did you notice the word "and" in the verse you referenced?

 

Surely any new thing will be in accord with the teachings of the Christ of GOD. I would venture to say that such a thing would too be in accord with the selfless conscience...

 

peace

The point I wanted to make in my Scripture quote was that all these prophecies that are coming out containing "new revelation" that Jesus nor Paul taught in the Gospels or the Epistles, cannot be of the Holy Spirit, because Jesus did say that the Holy Spirit will bring to remembrance all that He taught the Apostles, and because Paul was appointed by Christ as an Apostle and given the ability to have his teaching inspired by the Holy Spirit as the result of the personal he received from the Holy Spirit, all revelation that is of the Holy Spirit is the revealing of what has already been written in the Scriptures.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Paul James

[popsthebuilder]

6 hours ago, Paul James said:

The point I wanted to make in my Scripture quote was that all these prophecies that are coming out containing "new revelation" that Jesus nor Paul taught in the Gospels or the Epistles, cannot be of the Holy Spirit, because Jesus did say that the Holy Spirit will bring to remembrance all that He taught the Apostles, and because Paul was appointed by Christ as an Apostle and given the ability to have his teaching inspired by the Holy Spirit as the result of the personal he received from the Holy Spirit, all revelation that is of the Holy Spirit is the revealing of what has already been written in the Scriptures.

Yes sir. I thought that was you meaning; but the text clearly doesn't limit revelations of the Holy Spirit of GOD to what has already been revealed. The simplest of proof being that the verse you quoted says "and". That's all. I know of someone who literally uses that particular verse to limit the capacities and abilities of the very Spirit of GOD; claiming GOD is limited to what is already taught....just doesn't seem accurate to me.

I don't mean to offend.

peace

[enoob57]

57 minutes ago, popsthebuilder said:

Yes sir. I thought that was you meaning; but the text clearly doesn't limit revelations of the Holy Spirit of GOD to what has already been revealed. The simplest of proof being that the verse you quoted says "and". That's all. I know of someone who literally uses that particular verse to limit the capacities and abilities of the very Spirit of GOD; claiming GOD is limited to what is already taught....just doesn't seem accurate to me.

I don't mean to offend.

peace

God has specifically stated His intent in this:
 

2 Tim 3:15-17

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV

This is so specific as to written Scripture being able to thoroughly furnished one must ask oneself -if I say there is still needed more than Scripture itself ... am I not contrary to the Word of God...

[popsthebuilder]

24 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

God has specifically stated His intent in this:
 

2 Tim 3:15-17

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV

This is so specific as to written Scripture being able to thoroughly furnished one must ask oneself -if I say there is still needed more than Scripture itself ... am I not contrary to the Word of God...

I don't think I was very clear initially. I know of one who claims the Holy Spirit of GOD is limited in capacity to quoting verbatim scripture to the believer. This is not accurate to me though seeing as how all scripture we read is translation.

The Spirit is not limited to recital of translated texts. That doesn't mean what is taught through the Holy Spirit will be contrary to scriptural understanding.