The two nature that co-exist in a Spirit filled Christian

[popsthebuilder]

10 hours ago, Hopefully said:

So what would you say to a homosexual because I am trying to understand where you are coming from. Would you say don’t worry that you are homosexual because trying to obey the rule not to be is trying to save yourself? Would you say continue in homosexuality and know that God has forgiven you of this sin? 
 

would you say continue to steal, and kill don’t stop to save yourselves but trust in God as you do these things?

would you tell me no homosexuality, murder, and theft are not the laws we are talking about keeping?

I just really don’t understand help me out.

 

 

 

 

What would i say to a homosexual?! I wouldn't judge them as lesser than me or as a greater sinner than i. If one loves GOD, and loves neighbor as self then how could i condemn them?

I in no way am proposing that one remain in sin that the grace of GOD may abound. Let such never be the case. I might ask if they ever consider their motives or their conscience perhaps. 

 

I would never claim that GOD perpetually forgives any of any sin that that individual doesn't actively repent of. 

Murder and sodomy and theft are all sin; but how much more sinful is hypocrisy all while lauding the condemnation of another?

 

Mercy is the rule from my vantage; not judgement, or placing self over another in value, or faith.

 

I apologize for not being more clear earlier; i believe that one who is washed clean and one who has heard and believed will too be the one who's beliefs are known by their word and deed.

 

May GOD have mercy on us all if it be HIS will. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by popsthebuilder

[Frits]

On 12/9/2020 at 7:49 AM, alaric_w said:

At this point, a Christian has two natures. The nature of the sinful flesh that is the old man and nature of the Holy Spirit that is God's nature.

Hi alaric,

Please bro, could you give me one, or two, or perhaps three verses in the Holy Bible to substantiate this?

Thank you.

[Frits]

9 hours ago, Michael37 said:

With regard to Christians there is a war between our sinful, fleshly nature and our godly, spiritual nature.

Hi @Michael37,

Brother can you help me with the following:

Do you think a born again Christian has two natures?

If so, can you justify one or two Bible texts?

 I am very grateful.

 

[Hopefully]

@Frits I know you didn’t ask me but what do you think about this-

“We know that the law is spiritual, but I am not. I am so human. Sin rules me as if I were its slave. I don’t understand why I act the way I do. I don’t do the good I want to do, and I do the evil I hate. And if I don’t want to do what I do, that means I agree that the law is good. But I am not really the one doing the evil. It is sin living in me that does it. Yes, I know that nothing good lives in me—I mean nothing good lives in the part of me that is not spiritual. I want to do what is good, but I don’t do it. I don’t do the good that I want to do. I do the evil that I don’t want to do. So if I do what I don’t want to do, then I am not really the one doing it. It is the sin living in me that does it. So I have learned this rule: When I want to do good, evil is there with me. In my mind I am happy with God’s law. But I see another law working in my body. That law makes war against the law that my mind accepts. That other law working in my body is the law of sin, and that law makes me its prisoner. What a miserable person I am! Who will save me from this body that brings me death? I thank God for his salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord! So in my mind I am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful self I am a slave to the law of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-25‬ ‭

[Guest kingdombrat]

8 hours ago, Hopefully said:

@kingdombrat okay I see what you are saying. Have you had the opportunity to do this yet? Pray for a homosexual without condemning them? I’m just wondering how they received it because I’d think they would be offended and may even storm off mid prayer or something unless their specific homosexuality is not mentioned in the prayer, but somehow still addressed. 

I didn't mention homosexuality, sin, etc.   I only said let them know God is real and let this seed being planted become a revelation of truth inside their hearts.

[Starise]

This might be somewhat OT. We all sin in various ways. The lost sin , continue to sin and have no inclination to change. The saved sin too, hopefully only occasionally. 

I my opinion we should no longer identify who we are through a sin or weakness. 

The Bible identifies sinners by what they do. Gluttons, thieves, adulterers, and so forth.

Anyone claiming to be a Christian who identifies as a person living in sin should not be identifying this way if saved.

Example- Someone might say I'm a Christian homosexual. I don't believe this is perpetually possible. Neither would one desire to wear that insignia for everyone to see. If they are indeed not feeling guilty about it, then there's a problem. 

I have never heard of anyone say, I'm a Christian glutton ( this is often apparent anyway) or I'm a Christian adulterer. How about " I'm a Christian thief". 

To the true Christian sin is nothing we are ever proud of. 

Why "identify" as something sinful? Why bring it up at all? It has been covered under the blood and we are being changed to never do it again.

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, popsthebuilder said:

What would i say to a homosexual?! I wouldn't judge them as lesser than me or as a greater sinner than i. If one loves GOD, and loves neighbor as self then how could i condemn them?

I in no way am proposing that one remain in sin that the grace of GOD may abound. Let such never be the case. I might ask if they ever consider their motives or their conscience perhaps. 

 

I would never claim that GOD perpetually forgives any of any sin that that individual doesn't actively repent of. 

Murder and sodomy and theft are all sin; but how much more sinful is hypocrisy all while lauding the condemnation of another?

 

Mercy is the rule from my vantage; not judgement, or placing self over another in value, or faith.

 

I apologize for not being more clear earlier; i believe that one who is washed clean and one who has heard and believed will too be the one who's beliefs are known by their word and deed.

 

May GOD have mercy on us all if it be HIS will. 

Jesus Christ has died for Sinners. 

He wants Sinners to believe in him.

I need to be careful about something, and this is that I should never tell anyone directly or indirectly or with suggestive speach not to  believe in Jesus Christ. 

Why Jesus Christ said: When I returned would I find faith (on earth.)

In the context of this statement which was made before his death on the Cross, Jesus Christ knew that when he dies on the Cross he will disappoint and break the hearts of everyone including his own disciples..

And they will no longer believe that he was the Christ because he died. 

Jesus is saying that where he would go before his return there he found faith, Abraham and all his kindred with him including the one who goes before him to declare his coming John the Baptist they believed in him when he went to them after his death, they believe that he is the Christ. 

And not only them but Jesus Christ had died for all and he preached the Gospel to all who had died before him and he found faith with them as many of them believe. 

The only thing that he asked from them it was to believe that he is the Christ the one to come who will give them the Life and the resurrection.  

Jesus found faith among the dead, and when he returned to earth from the dead, he did not found no one to wait for him no one. He did not find faith...

The Gospel begins with faith in him, Jesus Christ is asking everyone to believe in him as they are...

To him that  is the primary the rest are secondary...

Faith in Jesus Christ cannot be judged by the secondary...

Faith in him is above all.  

Another time Jesus Christ said "the dead will hear my voice first and believe before anyone on earth believes in him.  

Jesus Christ was to preach the Gospel to the dead, and he commissioned his disciples to preach the Gospel to the living, he send them in all the earth and not only them but everyone who believes in him...

We who have the Life we are commission to give the Life to others, to everyone who believes in our message about Jesus Christ. 

That's why Paul called Timothy "my son", because Timothy heard the Gospel from Paul and believed. 

[Michael37]

8 hours ago, Frits said:

Hi @Michael37,

Brother can you help me with the following:

Do you think a born again Christian has two natures?

If so, can you justify one or two Bible texts?

 I am very grateful.

 

Hi Frits,

Yes, there is a fleshly, sinful nature in all of us. Both Scripture and human experience tell us it is so. The words "fleshly" and "carnal" are synonymous.

Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Rom 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

1Co 3:1-3  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.  (2)  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto you were not able to bear it, neither yet now are you able.  (3)  For you are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are you not carnal, and walk as men?

Gal 5:16-17  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.  (17)  For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would.

etc.

There are many passages that show how the flesh rises up in Christians, but God's grace is sufficient in all our needs, and we can partake of the divine nature as below:

Confirm Your Calling and Election
2Pe 1:3  According as his divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that has called us to glory and virtue: 
2Pe 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 
2Pe 1:5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 
2Pe 1:6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 
2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 
2Pe 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 
2Pe 1:9  But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 
2Pe 1:10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, you shall never fall: 
2Pe 1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 

 

 

[Dennis1209]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:49 AM, alaric_w said:

Most Christians have this wrong understanding and believed that God gave the Law for us to follow. Before the death and resurrection of Jesus, everyone is living in the flesh and dead spiritually. Therefore, there is only one nature which man lived by which is the flesh. Man not knowing that they are sinful and can never please God, tried to perform good works to earn God's favor. Therefore God gave the Law and said: "Anyone who desire earn my favor and enter heaven must obey the Law without breaking any of the commandments."

 

Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

 

Galatians 5:3 If anyone wants to be righteous through the law, they have to obey the entire law

 

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

 

But God's true intention for giving the Law is to show man that they cannot keep his law because of their sinful nature. It is liken to God saying to a dead corpse "If you want to live, then show me that you can breathe." But it is impossible for a dead corpse to breathe.

 

After the death and resurrection of Jesus, everyone who accepted Jesus is born again, filled and sealed with the Holy Spirit and made alive spiritually. At this point, a Christian has two natures. The nature of the sinful flesh that is the old man and nature of the Holy Spirit that is God's nature. If you know the flesh, you will know that it is capable of performing good works and evil desires. In the non-Christian community, do we not see people who contributed much to the society and others? However, God compare all the righteousness of sinful man as filthy rags.

 

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 

The other nature of a Christian is the nature the Holy Spirit that is God's nature which cannot sin. These two different nature within a Christian is constantly at war. Therefore Paul wrote that he discipline his body and bring it into subjection.

 

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

 

How to know stop operating in the flesh?

Step 1: Stop focusing on the Law and do not be sin conscious. Remember that God did not gave the Law for anyone to follow but rather to make all sinners aware that of their sinful nature and cannot save themselves by their own human effort or good works. If you continue to focus on the Law, you will strengthen the flesh to perform and more sins will be committed.

 

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

 

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

 

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.

 

Galatians 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.

 

Galatians 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

 

Step 2: Live in freedom from the Law and act according to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. If you believe that God cannot sin, what made you think you will commit sin when you are flowing with the Holy Spirit?

 

Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

 

Anyone who is alive will naturally breathe without being told to do so. Therefore if a Christian flows with the spirit, they live out the nature of God which is free from the Law and Sin. Therefore, I believe this is the reason why God do not want Christians to be conscious of the Law and Sin. A born again Christian who is filled with the Holy Spirit will naturally obey the Law without effort or mindful of not breaking it.

That's exactly my understanding. When the Father looks upon us, He sees His Son, and our sins are cast away as far as the East is from the West. When we pray to our Father, we don't pray in our sinful flesh and the 'old man'. We pray in the Spirit in truth and boldly go before the Throne of God. 

Well said and stated alaric_w.

[Frits]

19 hours ago, Hopefully said:

@Frits I know you didn’t ask me but what do you think about this-

“We know that the law is spiritual, but I am not. I am so human. Sin rules me as if I were its slave. I don’t understand why I act the way I do. I don’t do the good I want to do, and I do the evil I hate. And if I don’t want to do what I do, that means I agree that the law is good. But I am not really the one doing the evil. It is sin living in me that does it. Yes, I know that nothing good lives in me—I mean nothing good lives in the part of me that is not spiritual. I want to do what is good, but I don’t do it. I don’t do the good that I want to do. I do the evil that I don’t want to do. So if I do what I don’t want to do, then I am not really the one doing it. It is the sin living in me that does it. So I have learned this rule: When I want to do good, evil is there with me. In my mind I am happy with God’s law. But I see another law working in my body. That law makes war against the law that my mind accepts. That other law working in my body is the law of sin, and that law makes me its prisoner. What a miserable person I am! Who will save me from this body that brings me death? I thank God for his salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord! So in my mind I am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful self I am a slave to the law of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-25‬ ‭

Hi Hopefully,

I am glad sister that you found this text from Romans 7.  The apostle Paul here provides insight into how the sin problem can be solved.
Not only the Gentiles, but also the Jewish people sinned.  While the Jews thought of themselves that with their law and all sacrifices they pleased God.  But precisely the Jews too were slaves to sin!  To solve that historical sin problem now, Paul describes the situation from the old days when he himself was still a Jewish zealot.  He identifies as a Jew with his Jewish readers and therefore writes this passage in the present tense.  After all, the converted Jews in Rome were well aware of what it was like to continually try to keep the many Torah laws, but time and again it failed and the law was broken at some point.  Hence, as an 'educated Hebrew' he understands the situation well and clings in with his readers.  He had already stated in v.5 that the actual circumstances surrounding sin no longer applied to him.  He begins that verse with the words, "For when we were in the flesh," that was now a thing of the past for him.  In v.15, he clearly states that he wanted to do the right thing.  He sincerely wanted to serve God, but he couldn't.
 Now he is going to explain the solution exactly and he is going to reveal the mystery behind sin.  In verse 17 he refers to the sin that dwells in him.  Not himself is the sin.  His nature is not sinful, but sin dwells in him from which he can be delivered!

 Paul was not delivered by the Lord Jesus from his own benevolent (v.19) nature, but from the power of sin that existed in his unconverted existence!  Hallelujah, God is good.
 In verse 20 he repeats this "mystery" again, that he himself does not seek and cause the sinful act, but he points to the indwelling power of sin!  Love for the righteousness of God creates an inner separation between the believer and the power of sin through the Holy Spirit.  Henceforth, the child of God no longer has to identify with sin.  He has come free from it, the truth has now set him free.  This is the true circumcision of the heart.

 God bless you, sis.  ?