How to Authentically Speak in Tongues

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

@enoob57

If a person speaks in tongues in 2023 and by all accounts it is valid. Do you accept it as legitimate or would you see reasons for it being illegitimate?

If so, chapter and verse please.

As I said if it is in private then it is between God and them…

Corinthians 14:27-28 (KJV)
[27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

 

although the Word of God seems to indicate everything is to be weighed by the Word in understanding… as the Word was not complete in this time. the desire of God for seems toward understanding…
1 Corinthians 14:14-19 (KJV) [14] For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
[15] What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
[16] Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
[17] For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
[18] I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
[19] Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
 

[JimmyB]

4 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

Not really if it was really for private use for then how would anyone know about it to oppose it?

You quoted part of a reference from 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 which is about how the gifts are manifested and used in the assembly;  the body of Christ.

So again, if it was really for private use, as if used by the Holy Spirit for making His own intercessions out loud, then why are you or any one else talking about it?

Unwittingly bragging more like.  "I have something you don't have."

That's just your (jealous?) interpretation.  I didn't start the discussion about speaking in tongues, nor do I think that anyone else to whom God has given that gift started it.

God gives His gifts to whomever He pleases.  I'm not bragging; rather, someone else is whining.

[JimmyB]

6 hours ago, Starise said:

I made the comment recently to a brother that I was envious of his ability to speak in tongues. I guess I wasn't truly envious in the sense that I was jealous of him, but more in a curious way as to ask why some seemed to have the ability while others didn't, and if I didn't have the ability , what was I missing?

I believe this brother's gift is real and sincere, but I also have to include those groups that teach a spiritual deficit if such gifts are not apparent. Have you seen this?

No, I haven't seen it.  If I did, I wouldn't pay attention to it. 

[Starise]

3 hours ago, enoob57 said:

As I said if it is in private then it is between God and them…

Corinthians 14:27-28 (KJV)
[27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

 

although the Word of God seems to indicate everything is to be weighed by the Word in understanding… as the Word was not complete in this time. the desire of God for seems toward understanding…
1 Corinthians 14:14-19 (KJV) [14] For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
[15] What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
[16] Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
[17] For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
[18] I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
[19] Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
 

 

3 hours ago, enoob57 said:

As I said if it is in private then it is between God and them…

Corinthians 14:27-28 (KJV)
[27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

 

although the Word of God seems to indicate everything is to be weighed by the Word in understanding… as the Word was not complete in this time. the desire of God for seems toward understanding…
1 Corinthians 14:14-19 (KJV) [14] For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
[15] What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
[16] Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
[17] For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
[18] I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
[19] Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
 

Thanks enoob

I have heard interpretations which sometimes come a little later and would validate  according to the first passage. There are those who sometimes pray low in these utterances so as not to cause confusion.

One of my first thoughts in reading the passage was the church almost needs a referee to sort who is doing what and how many. God would be the one providing the interpreter and therefore the validation.The Spirit speaking through a man in a tongue not his own and another who is granted understanding of the words, either right away or momentarily for the purposes of getting a message from God.

I don't see alternative methods as invalidation since it seems entirely possible to do this, but do it incorrectly. This would not invalidate the existence of the gift. Only the way it was used. If God is giving a man or woman a word through tongues, then He had a purpose in doing so.

Emphasis is clearly on understanding in a public church setting. Apparently in private no such rules apply.

If a person speaks publicly in tongues, how would they know if there will be an interpreter? I don't believe this is always a known. I think that's a fair question.

My take away- Tongues seems to be largely a private experience sometimes shared with others in the right conditions. If I hear a brother speaking in tongues as a soft murmer, I would conclude it wasn't intended for public consumption. Great comfort seems to come to those who engage in this activity as a gift from the Lord. Maybe a better way of saying it would be, comfort comes to those who this activity works through them. If God gives the utterance, it isn't them.

[enoob57]

16 minutes ago, Starise said:

If God is giving a man or woman a word through tongues, then He had a purpose in doing so.

I believe in a closed cannon … The seal at the end of Revelation is a seal for all times till the new heaven and new earth…

 

16 minutes ago, Starise said:

If a person speaks publicly in tongues, how would they know if there will be an interpreter? I don't believe this is always a known. I think that's a fair question.

If God is indeed doing it then all is moot … but if God is not in it then you have tongues without interpretation… The Lord never violates His Word…

 

16 minutes ago, Starise said:

My take away- Tongues seems to be largely a private experience sometimes shared with others in the right conditions. If I hear a brother speaking in tongues as a soft murmer, I would conclude it wasn't intended for public consumption. Great comfort seems to come to those who engage in this activity as a gift from the Lord. Maybe a better way of saying it would be, comfort comes to those who this activity works through them. If God gives the utterance, it isn't them.

Public is public and private is private no confusion for me in this at all…
1 Corinthians 14:28 (KJV) [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
personally I would say a low mumble is not silence …

[Starise]

11 hours ago, enoob57 said:

I believe in a closed cannon …

I'm trying to look at this logically. Thanks for those references. The references you posted give the methods for tongues.

What specifically would lead those who believe in a closed cannon to that conclusion? I am remembering one scripture. Here it is in 1 Cor 13- Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

I am not seeing this passage as conclusive because it combines tongues with knowledge as something that will eventually cease. Since we still have knowledge, we would still have tongues right? I see this as saying all things will pass away but love above all will remain.

Are there other scriptures which might support this view?

11 hours ago, enoob57 said:

If God is indeed doing it then all is moot … but if God is not in it then you have tongues without interpretation… The Lord never violates His Word…

I agree God is not the author of confusion. How does the person speaking in tongues know there is an interpreter? Are there designated interpreters in these churches? I would think there is a known designated interpreter, otherwise speaking in tongues is either a gamble or a leap of faith. If God leads a person to speak in tongues, then He would necessarily provide an interpreter as well. Thoughts?

11 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Public is public and private is private no confusion for me in this at all…

If you believe in a closed canon then wouldn't you also believe that tongues do not exist either public or private?

 

 

 

 

 

[George]

I believe a huge misunderstanding for many is knowing what "perfect" means in the passage.

1Co 13:8  Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 

1Co 13:9  For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 

1Co 13:10  but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 

Some would say this "perfect" is the Bible in its entirety.  However, is that what Paul is talking about?

This is every time it's used in the New Testament ...

https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g5046

I suggest that the "PERFECT" is NOT the Word of God coming in the Cannon, which was comprised 300 years after 1 Corinthians is penned ... and for those advocating for the KJV on other threads ... the original KJV had the Apocrypha within it, and was a crime to remove it in the early KJV versions!  For a history of the English Bible ... 

Quote

The original 1611 King James contained the Apocrypha, and King James threatened anyone who dared to print the Bible without the Apocrypha with heavy fines and a year in jail. Only for the last 120 years has the Protestant Church rejected these books, and removed them from their Bibles. This has left most modern-day Christians believing the popular myth that there is something “Roman Catholic” about the Apocrypha. There is, however, no truth in that myth, and no widely-accepted reason for the removal of the Apocrypha in the 1880’s has ever been officially issued by a mainline Protestant denomination.

The perfect is our redemption ... when we see HIM FACE to FACE ... is my personal understanding of that passage.  I like to think of it this way ... we are all babies in our eternal existence, and even now, we are simply taking life step by step, learning to live it out!

1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 

1Co 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 

Even Paul, when he pens this, recognizes that he once spoke as a child. As he matured in the faith, he gave up the childish issues ... and even in his maturity, he states, I'm looking at my reflection not perfectly but dimly ... however, his partial knowledge and understanding will be complete when he fully understands and knows.  When does that happen?   He's not talking about the Bible at all and the cannon ... he's speaking of his eternal existence when he graduates to glory and sees the Lord face to face in his perfection, and when that happens, He will UNDERSTAND fully all those things that he only partially understood now in this present world!

Honestly, re-read the passage ... it's all how you interpret the word "PERFECT" ...

[Marathoner]

16 minutes ago, George said:

I believe a huge misunderstanding for many is knowing what "perfect" means in the passage.

1Co 13:8  Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 

1Co 13:9  For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 

1Co 13:10  but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 

Some would say this "perfect" is the Bible in its entirety.  However, is that what Paul is talking about?

This is every time it's used in the New Testament ...

https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g5046

I suggest that the "PERFECT" is NOT the Word of God coming in the Cannon, which was comprised 300 years after 1 Corinthians is penned ... and for those advocating for the KJV on other threads ... the original KJV had the Apocrypha within it, and was a crime to remove it in the early KJV versions!  For a history of the English Bible ... 

The perfect is our redemption ... when we see HIM FACE to FACE ... is my personal understanding of that passage.  I like to think of it this way ... we are all babies in our eternal existence, and even now, we are simply taking life step by step, learning to live it out!

1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 

1Co 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 

Even Paul, when he pens this, recognizes that he once spoke as a child. As he matured in the faith, he gave up the childish issues ... and even in his maturity, he states, I'm looking at my reflection not perfectly but dimly ... however, his partial knowledge and understanding will be complete when he fully understands and knows.  When does that happen?   He's not talking about the Bible at all and the cannon ... he's speaking of his eternal existence when he graduates to glory and sees the Lord face to face in his perfection, and when that happens, He will UNDERSTAND fully all those things that he only partially understood now in this present world!

Honestly, re-read the passage ... it's all how you interpret the word "PERFECT" ...

That's my understanding as well, George. 

[enoob57]

48 minutes ago, Starise said:

I am not seeing thos passage as conclusive because it combines tongues with knowledge as something that will eventually cease. Since we still have knowledge, we would still have tongues right? I see this as saying all things will pass away but love above all will remain.

Are there other scriptures which might support this view?

As my argument is not whether tongues are for today or not… my argument lies totally in the use of said gifts… cessationist believe when the Bible was complete in canon is the perfect mentioned here in vs. 10
1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (KJV) [8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

This carries some weight in the light of this statement
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The thought process being that which may perfect one to use for God being the Scripture is the perfect to come… 

 

However the knowledge that shall vanish away is spoken of by the prophet Isaiah
Isaiah 65:17 (KJV)
[17] ¶ For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

vs 8b ‘whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.’
God even tells us when the knowledge of former things will be removed
Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV)
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

As far as tongues ceasing that’s not important … the fact if they were Biblically followed there would not be issue within the body of Christ… 

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, George said:

I believe a huge misunderstanding for many is knowing what "perfect" means in the passage.

1Co 13:8  Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 

1Co 13:9  For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 

1Co 13:10  but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 

Some would say this "perfect" is the Bible in its entirety.  However, is that what Paul is talking about?

This is every time it's used in the New Testament ...

https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g5046

I suggest that the "PERFECT" is NOT the Word of God coming in the Cannon, which was comprised 300 years after 1 Corinthians is penned ... and for those advocating for the KJV on other threads ... the original KJV had the Apocrypha within it, and was a crime to remove it in the early KJV versions!  For a history of the English Bible ... 

The perfect is our redemption ... when we see HIM FACE to FACE ... is my personal understanding of that passage.  I like to think of it this way ... we are all babies in our eternal existence, and even now, we are simply taking life step by step, learning to live it out!

1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 

1Co 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 

Even Paul, when he pens this, recognizes that he once spoke as a child. As he matured in the faith, he gave up the childish issues ... and even in his maturity, he states, I'm looking at my reflection not perfectly but dimly ... however, his partial knowledge and understanding will be complete when he fully understands and knows.  When does that happen?   He's not talking about the Bible at all and the cannon ... he's speaking of his eternal existence when he graduates to glory and sees the Lord face to face in his perfection, and when that happens, He will UNDERSTAND fully all those things that he only partially understood now in this present world!

Honestly, re-read the passage ... it's all how you interpret the word "PERFECT" ...

Because God has said this
John 12:46-50 (KJV)
[46] I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
[47] And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
[49] For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
[50] And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 14:21 (KJV)
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

It seems to me in this time God has placed all weight upon His Word and has told us all things unto the eternal state… said Scripture is said to be able to perfect us for all use by God now and till we are taken from here…
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The foundational aspects of life are placed fully upon the Scripture … so I tend to rely totally upon His Word for here and now in all matters. This in no way affirms that you are not George it is merely pointing to the weight of Scripture given us by The Scripture…