Steward Popular Post George Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.25 Content Count: 27,793 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,513 Days Won: 130 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Popular Post Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: The foundational aspects of life are placed fully upon the Scripture … so I tend to rely totally upon His Word for here and now in all matters. This in no way affirms that you are not George it is merely pointing to the weight of Scripture given us by The Scripture… I agree that Scripture is in fact inerrant ... however in the context of the passage talking about that which is perfect has come ... you can see that Paul is referencing his future when he sees everything face to face. I don't think that can be Scripture. What's interesting is that passage you referred to in 2 Tim 3:17 ... the word prefect there is only USED once in all of Scripture ... interesting ... https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g739 However, it's ROOT ... is directly connected to the verses we are discussing ... https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g737 1 Corinthians 13:12 - For now G737 we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now G737 I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. So the NOW is connected to the Bible ... and the PERFECT to come must be in reference to something else. Just something to consider. Be blessed. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.25 Content Count: 27,793 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,513 Days Won: 130 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted May 5, 2023 2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV) [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. It probably should be translated ... man of God may be COMPLETE ... And that seems to be the consensus in other translations ... https://biblehub.com/2_timothy/3-17.htm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted May 5, 2023 I find Acts chapter 11 a good read that may suggest some clarity. Read it and see what y’all think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted May 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, George said: 2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV) [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. It probably should be translated ... man of God may be COMPLETE ... And that seems to be the consensus in other translations ... https://biblehub.com/2_timothy/3-17.htm Yup..that is what the Lord taught me…complete. Complete in the context of both understanding and experience as Christ is worked in us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,119 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,643 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2023 6 hours ago, George said: I believe a huge misunderstanding for many is knowing what "perfect" means in the passage. 1Co 13:8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 1Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. Some would say this "perfect" is the Bible in its entirety. However, is that what Paul is talking about? This is every time it's used in the New Testament ... https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g5046 I suggest that the "PERFECT" is NOT the Word of God coming in the Cannon, which was comprised 300 years after 1 Corinthians is penned ... and for those advocating for the KJV on other threads ... the original KJV had the Apocrypha within it, and was a crime to remove it in the early KJV versions! For a history of the English Bible ... The perfect is our redemption ... when we see HIM FACE to FACE ... is my personal understanding of that passage. I like to think of it this way ... we are all babies in our eternal existence, and even now, we are simply taking life step by step, learning to live it out! 1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. Even Paul, when he pens this, recognizes that he once spoke as a child. As he matured in the faith, he gave up the childish issues ... and even in his maturity, he states, I'm looking at my reflection not perfectly but dimly ... however, his partial knowledge and understanding will be complete when he fully understands and knows. When does that happen? He's not talking about the Bible at all and the cannon ... he's speaking of his eternal existence when he graduates to glory and sees the Lord face to face in his perfection, and when that happens, He will UNDERSTAND fully all those things that he only partially understood now in this present world! Honestly, re-read the passage ... it's all how you interpret the word "PERFECT" ... Thanks for jumping in here George. I see places in scripture where God decides to do different things as a result of Him introducing something better.Your comments and references reflect this. One day we will know as we are known. This goes way outside of just speaking in tongues, but I think also includes it. To know as we are known. How will this change the dynamic of speaking in tongues? The bible tells us " Though I speak with the tongues of ANGELS and lack love I have nothing" In heaven we won't need a translator because we will know the languages of heaven. Speaking in tongues is not a static thing. As I understand it, the gift is often taylored to a situation. There have been instances where a person speaking another language heard the word through someone with the gift of tongues, and there are how many languages?? Hundreds. @enoob57 Thanks for your comments. When I look at the bible I am thinking about divisions and covenants in relation to your ideas. For sure there were a few one time unique events such as the day of penecost. I don't believe anything quite like that has ever been repeated.It isn't every day we see "tongues" of fire over the heads of a congregation while they speak in tongues. Yet I also see some continuation. We still have sickness, God heals. We still have demons, God delivers. We still have the Spirit working, God facilitates. Doesn't sound like you doubt the gift of tongues, but the delivery doesn't often satisfy requirements. I can't really say this is true to any large degree, but I can see the false teachers out there using tongues as a way to legitimize their illegitimate evil ministries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted May 5, 2023 57 minutes ago, Starise said: Thanks for jumping in here George. I see places in scripture where God decides to do different things as a result of Him introducing something better.Your comments and references reflect this. One day we will know as we are known. This goes way outside of just speaking in tongues, but I think also includes it. To know as we are known. How will this change the dynamic of speaking in tongues? The bible tells us " Though I speak with the tongues of ANGELS and lack love I have nothing" In heaven we won't need a translator because we will know the languages of heaven. Speaking in tongues is not a static thing. As I understand it, the gift is often taylored to a situation. There have been instances where a person speaking another language heard the word through someone with the gift of tongues, and there are how many languages?? Hundreds. @enoob57 Thanks for your comments. When I look at the bible I am thinking about divisions and covenants in relation to your ideas. For sure there were a few one time unique events such as the day of penecost. I don't believe anything quite like that has ever been repeated.It isn't every day we see "tongues" of fire over the heads of a congregation while they speak in tongues. Yet I also see some continuation. We still have sickness, God heals. We still have demons, God delivers. We still have the Spirit working, God facilitates. Doesn't sound like you doubt the gift of tongues, but the delivery doesn't often satisfy requirements. I can't really say this is true to any large degree, but I can see the false teachers out there using tongues as a way to legitimize their illegitimate evil ministries. Did you read over Acts Chapter 11....there are several interesting things recorded there. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,370 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,552 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 5, 2023 3 hours ago, George said: I agree that Scripture is in fact inerrant ... however in the context of the passage talking about that which is perfect has come ... you can see that Paul is referencing his future when he sees everything face to face. I don't think that can be Scripture. What's interesting is that passage you referred to in 2 Tim 3:17 ... the word prefect there is only USED once in all of Scripture ... interesting ... https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g739 However, it's ROOT ... is directly connected to the verses we are discussing ... https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g737 1 Corinthians 13:12 - For now G737 we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now G737 I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. So the NOW is connected to the Bible ... and the PERFECT to come must be in reference to something else. Just something to consider. Be blessed. Yes these are valid reasonings of Scripture… that is why you’ll notice I do not say tongues have ceased as there are these facts you have given… I do tell people to be wary of tongues for it is a persuasion to trust outside of Scripture in intuitions and feelings. For myself I trust in the objective presence of His Word … My faith is born out from His Word and I enjoy the humanness of it, however, I do not cling to the body I am in nor the world which I began… As God has said it so I believe it and the sensual aspects of flesh I give no mind to as they pass away and will be forgotten 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,370 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,552 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 5, 2023 @Alive yes the transitional nature of NT writing is ever mindful in my contextualization of it. Balance within Scripture is kept by God in the hermeneutic of His Word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,119 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,643 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2023 42 minutes ago, Alive said: Did you read over Acts Chapter 11....there are several interesting things recorded there. :-) Well yes, but I'll re read it.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted May 5, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Yes these are valid reasonings of Scripture… that is why you’ll notice I do not say tongues have ceased as there are these facts you have given… I do tell people to be wary of tongues for it is a persuasion to trust outside of Scripture in intuitions and feelings. For myself I trust in the objective presence of His Word … My faith is born out from His Word and I enjoy the humanness of it, however, I do not cling to the body I am in nor the world which I began… As God has said it so I believe it and the sensual aspects of flesh I give no mind to as they pass away and will be forgotten Agree for 100 % with you,God is God but He also warned of false tongues.. Don Stewart explains it very well.. https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/stewart_don/faq/speaking-in-tongues/21-if-certain-tongue-speaking-does-not-come-from-god-where-does-it-come-from.cfm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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