There is no rapture for the left behind as their souls go under the Altar.

[R. Hartono]

THE MARTYRED SOULS IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION ARE TAKEN DIRECTLY TO HEAVEN TO THE ALTAR AT GOD'S THRONE

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. ¹⁰ They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” ¹¹ Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,^[e] were killed just as they had been.

These 5th seal martyrs is explained particularly as NOT WORSHIPPING THE BEAST IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION so they are not martyrs of the church era.

Rev 20:4...And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They HAD NOT WORSHIPPED THE BEAST OR ITS IMAGE AND HAD NOT RECEIVED ITS MARK on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

THEREFORE THIS VERSE ABOUT THE RAPTURE IS NOT REFERRING TO THESE MARTYRS UNDER THE ALTAR (WHAT GOOD FOR JESUS TO GATHER THE SAINTS TO THE CLOUD IF THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN TO THE ALTAR IN HEAVEN WHEN THEY DIED) :

1 thes 4:16 Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

These 5th seal martyrs are not from the church era like the apostles Peter, Paul, James etc. who were all martyred as they will be risen and taken to the cloud with the living saints of end times as the Great Multitude of Rev. 7. Its also a possibility that the 24 elders at the throne could consists of the 12 apostles who preceded the Great Multitide to heaven.

Because the martyrs of church era (Stephen, the apostles etc until present times) rcvd their dwellings together at Abraham's bossom in sheol, just like ordinary christians who died of old age, waiting for the rapture of 1 Thes 4:16 as the great multitude.

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 14...“These are they who have come out of the great tribulation.

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by R. Hartono

[Keras]

All the martyrs of the Church era, from Stephen until now and when Jesus Returns, have their souls kept under the Altar in heaven. As described in Revelation 6:9-11 and in Revelation 19:1-8

But when Jesus Returns, he will only bring the souls of the martyrs killed during the reign of the 'beast'. Revelation 20:4-5                        The rest of the dead from Adam and right up until the end of the Millennium, await the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 20:11-15

[R. Hartono]

5 hours ago, Keras said:

All the martyrs of the Church era, from Stephen until now and when Jesus Returns, have their souls kept under the Altar in heaven. As described in Revelation 6:9-11 and in Revelation 19:1-8

But when Jesus Returns, he will only bring the souls of the martyrs killed during the reign of the 'beast'. Revelation 20:4-5                        The rest of the dead from Adam and right up until the end of the Millennium, await the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 20:11-15

The martyrs of the church era (including the apostles) receive their dwellings just like the normal christians who died of old age, waiting for the rapture, they dwell with Abraham in Sheol. Their souls dont wait under the Altar till the full number of their fellow martyrs killed by the beast in the gt.

Edited January 9, 2021 by R. Hartono

[Keras]

17 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The martyrs of the church era (including the apostles) receive their dwellings just like the normal christians who died of old age, waiting for the rapture, they dwell with Abraham in Sheol. Their souls dont wait under the Altar till the full number of their fellow martyrs killed by the beast in the gt.

I read and believe the Bible.   The dead lie in their graves and their souls go back to God who made them. They will be raised after the Millennium for Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

Your unsupported ideas don't wash. 

[R. Hartono]

8 hours ago, Keras said:

 The dead lie in their graves and their souls go back to God who made them.

In the story of Lazarus n the rich man Abraham is in sheol, its the place God provide for the saints awaiting the rapture of 1 Thes 4:16.

Peace.

Edited January 10, 2021 by R. Hartono

[missmuffet]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:37 PM, R. Hartono said:

THE MARTYRED SOULS IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION ARE TAKEN DIRECTLY TO HEAVEN TO THE ALTAR AT GOD'S THRONE

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. ¹⁰ They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” ¹¹ Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,^[e] were killed just as they had been.

These 5th seal martyrs is explained particularly as NOT WORSHIPPING THE BEAST IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION so they are not martyrs of the church era.

Rev 20:4...And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They HAD NOT WORSHIPPED THE BEAST OR ITS IMAGE AND HAD NOT RECEIVED ITS MARK on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

THEREFORE THIS VERSE ABOUT THE RAPTURE IS NOT REFERRING TO THESE MARTYRS UNDER THE ALTAR (WHAT GOOD FOR JESUS TO GATHER THE SAINTS TO THE CLOUD IF THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN TO THE ALTAR IN HEAVEN WHEN THEY DIED) :

1 thes 4:16 Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

These 5th seal martyrs are not from the church era like the apostles Peter, Paul, James etc. who were all martyred as they will be risen and taken to the cloud with the living saints of end times as the Great Multitude of Rev. 7. Its also a possibility that the 24 elders at the throne could consists of the 12 apostles who preceded the Great Multitide to heaven.

Because the martyrs of church era (Stephen, the apostles etc until present times) rcvd their dwellings together at Abraham's bossom in sheol, just like ordinary christians who died of old age, waiting for the rapture of 1 Thes 4:16 as the great multitude.

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 14...“These are they who have come out of the great tribulation.

 

 

 

In this verse John sees those who have been martyred for Christ during the 7 year tribulation. These are the tribulation Saints. They are the unbelievers who have gone into the 7 year tribulation and have come to Christ. 

[Uriah]

On 1/6/2021 at 12:37 AM, R. Hartono said:

THE MARTYRED SOULS IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION ARE TAKEN DIRECTLY TO HEAVEN TO THE ALTAR AT GOD'S THRONE

Yikes, where do I start? Are you able to show anyone who has been claiming people who have died get raptured? NO! Those who died will be resurrected! Not raptured! 

Secondly, you seem to be demanding that ALL who go through the great tribulation will be martyred. That is purely your assumption, not found in scripture.

Also, if there were to be a rapture/resurrection 7 yrs. prior for example, you would be adding a third resurrection added on to the two that are shown in the bible.

Once again I recommend people read Heb 11:40- God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

The O.T. saints cannot be resurrected without the rest of us.

[R. Hartono]

On 1/10/2021 at 3:02 AM, Keras said:

I read and believe the Bible.   The dead lie in their graves and their souls go back to God who made them. They will be raised after the Millennium for Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

Your unsupported ideas don't wash. 

 

11 hours ago, Uriah said:

The O.T. saints cannot be resurrected without the rest of us.

Those souls under the Altar did not join the wedding Feast of the Lamb in Rev 19 as they wait for their numbers to be accomplished. Only the great multitude of Rev 7 (bride of Christ) rcv the Feast.

 

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

 

Those souls under the Altar did not join the wedding Feast of the Lamb in Rev 19 as they wait for their numbers to be accomplished. Only the great multitude of Rev 7 (bride of Christ) rcv the Feast.

 

So you require multiple raptures and resurrections. Also, you are misreading Rev. 20:4- And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:(there is one group) and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,(another group) and which had not worshipped the beast,( and another Rev:7) neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Did you notice that Paul said, "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us...but no, your scheme means he told those in Thessalonica a falsehood.

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. What were they thinking?

 

[R. Hartono]

58 minutes ago, Uriah said:

So you require multiple raptures and resurrections. Also, you are misreading Rev. 20:4- And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:(there is one group) and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,(another group) and which had not worshipped the beast,( and another Rev:7) neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Did you notice that Paul said, "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us...but no, your scheme means he told those in Thessalonica a falsehood.

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. What were they thinking?

 

The wise virgins taken to the wedding is the rapture of  1 Thes 4:16

The foolish virgins left behind shall be martyred shud they dare to resist the beast n its mark, these shall be resurrected in Rev 20 for the Millennium of Christ but these are not the great multitude of Rev 7.

What good is it for Jesus to rapture these left behind martyrs to heaven as their souls will alrdy go directly to heaven under the Altar.

Edited January 15, 2021 by R. Hartono