There is no rapture for the left behind as their souls go under the Altar.

[Uriah]

On 1/14/2021 at 11:29 PM, R. Hartono said:

The wise virgins taken to the wedding is the rapture of  1 Thes 4:16

The foolish virgins left behind shall be martyred shud they dare to resist the beast n its mark, these shall be resurrected in Rev 20 for the Millennium of Christ but these are not the great multitude of Rev 7.

What good is it for Jesus to rapture these left behind martyrs to heaven as their souls will alrdy go directly to heaven under the Altar.

As I have already posted, the parable  you refer to shows the groom coming LATER than the virgins were prepared for. He comes at the darkest/most dangerous time.

The fact that the story is about the wedding takes us to Rev.19. It is where we read that the bride receives her wedding attire as Jesus is seen arriving on a white horse. She cannot enter without the proper attire which was not given 7 or 3.5 yrs earlier. the first verse of that chapter shows a multitude in the sky shouting His praises. They had just been raptured. 

[DeighAnn]

CHRIST DEFEATED DEATH. 

So our 'flesh' body, no longer of any use to us, is planted in the ground and goes on to decay and back to dust.  

It will never be resurrected EVER.  Why? 

Because we have 2 bodies. 

Once the earthly one dies, the heavenly one emerges.  That is why the body stays in the ground.  The spirit on the other hand RETuRNS to God who gave it.  


I know you all know these like the back of your hand but PLEASE read them again.  

 

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;



JESUS YEILDED UP THE SPIRIT AND IMMEDIATELY RENT THE VEIL.  HE DIDN'T DIE.  HE DEFEATED DEATH. THAT IS WHAT SATAN COULDN'T FORESEE.  JESUS ROSE FIRST, THE FIRST AMONG MANY.  DEATH WHERE IS THY STING??  WE NEVER DIE WHEN IN CHRIST.  JUST OUR FLESH AND BLOOD BODIES DO.  



 

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

These bodies weren't decaying flesh bodies walking around.  These bodies were NOT flesh bodies made better.  They were in their celestial bodies.   

 

1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1 Corinthians 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.


 

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

The flesh body MUST die for the spiritual body to be made alive
 

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
 

The flesh goes back to dust.  Planted like a seed in the ground that itself must die to produce the plant.

 

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1 Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Terrestrial dies, Celestial rises

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The only thing that goes to the grave is the flesh.  WE ARE DONE WITH IT.  WE do not become body less.  We go to be with the father 


 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.  

This isn't in some distant future.  This is immediately upon death of the flesh.  WHO are the multitudes sitting around the throne?  

Celestial bodies, US, returned to the Father who gave.  


 

What and who is keeping you separated from the Father?  Just as there is no reason for pre tribulation anything as that is part of the process in which GOD PERFECTS us, there is no reason for us to not go to be with God.  


 

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Which of course tells us that the only PRE TRIB RAP IS DEATH OF THE FLESH AS THOSE ARE WHO WE ARE TOLD ARE RETURNING.  

[DeighAnn]

28 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

There was a time before "pre, mid, post trib" when Christians held to the Biblical explanation of the Lord's return, after the period of the great tribulation.b

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep."    (1Thess. 4:15)

So you have God saving His people from the beginning to the end of the world. Christ will come at the last day of the world  in flaming fire to destroy this world (judgment) and also to gather all of His chosen ones (righteousness). Those who are alive at this incredibly awesome event will see the resurrected bodies of all who died in Christ transformed into their glorified spiritual bodies, and then the same goes with them. Will all of this occur instantly? The Bible says yes, suddenly,  in the twinkling of an eye. 

There is no other timeline than that. One resurrection, at the last day. No thousand year waiting period. That's what used to be taught until this crazy combination of Jewish tradition and literal  interpretation of        "a thousand years " took root in the last century in the churches. 

That would make everyone dead until Christ returned.  

 

Are you proposing that these went back to a hole in the ground?  That they were walking around in their old rotting flesh bodies?  Or are you saying their spiritual bodies went into the ground?  

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

[DeighAnn]

45 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

There is no other timeline than that. One resurrection, at the last day. No thousand year waiting period. That's what used to be taught until this crazy combination of Jewish tradition and literal  interpretation of        "a thousand years " took root in the last century in the churches. 

The SPIRITUALLY DEAD have to wait the 1000 yrs before they get the chance to RECEIVE their IMMORTALITY. 


Remember how Christ summed up our state of being  "Let the dead bury the dead"  That was one who wished to follow Him but the cares of this world were more important.  Walking and talking and living BUT DEAD none the less.  

They will be walking and talking and worshipping and learning Gods Truth for that entire 1000 years BUT they will not have immortal souls.  

or put another way

They will be alive in CELESTIAL bodies but they will still have to face the 2nd death.  It is only at that judgment that they COULD receive their immortality.  


 

Ezekiel 40:2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.

Ezekiel 40:3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.

Ezekiel 40:4 And the man said unto me, Son of man, behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee; for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 40:5 And behold a wall on the outside of the house round about, and in the man's hand a measuring reed of six cubits long by the cubit and an hand breadth: so he measured the breadth of the building, one reed; and the height, one reed.

Ezekiel 40:6 Then came he unto the gate which looketh toward the east, and went up the stairs thereof, and measured the threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad; and the other threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad.

...and on to the end of the book.  That is what the millennium will look like.  You will see the priests that minister to the Lord and priests who take care of the people. 

Who do you imagine 'the nations' to be?  Who (do those who reign and are priests with Christ) preach to?   Other priests?  No, those who didn't receive their immortality.  Those who were taught false doctrines and so were deceived, those who never accepted Christ, those who never heard the Word.    

[DeighAnn]

12 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Oh in regards to Mt. 27:52-53, I believe this was a symbolic picture of the resurrection, as Christ returned to heaven in His Spirit ( v. 49). Also the fact that the veil was " rent in twain" could have signified the freedom in Christ ( free from the law of sin and death) as these saints arose. 

 

I also believe it was symbolic.  What makes you believe that resurrection only happens 'the one time'?  

 

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

IS THIS NOT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING? 

THAT THERE IS NO RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD...........................................UNTIL

WHERE DOES THE 'UNTIL' COME FROM?

 

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, THEN IS CHRIST NOT RISEN.




 

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

 

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.



AND 3 TIMES FOR EMPHASIS

THEN THEY ALSO WHICH ARE FALLEN ASLEEP IN CHRIST ARE PERISHED. 


 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.


THEN THEY ALSO WHICH ARE FALLEN ASLEEP IN CHRIST ARE PERISHED.  

[DeighAnn]

24 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Also the fact that the veil was " rent in twain" could have signified the freedom in Christ ( free from the law of sin and death) as these saints arose. 

Once a year A priest would go past the veil into the Holy of Holies. Once a year.  One priest.   
(remember the bells sewed on the garment so they would know if he dropped dead?)

Christs BLOOD washed us clean and rent that veil so that we didn't need to go through ANYONE except the blood of Christ to into the Holy of Holies and GO TALK TO GOD.  

[DeighAnn]

6 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Hey, you can take OT language literally and make it fit your " thosand year" narrative. Main problem: there is no mention of the phrase " thousand years " in the OT pertaining to the context of this "holy kingdom" on an earth still cursed with sin. 

The OT language is mostly allegorical in nature, representing the eternal kingdom of God, right after the end of the world we are currently living in. 

Anyone who is predestined to eternal life is considered to be "kings and priests"

" Let the dead bury the dead" is an allegorical statement...let the spiritually dead ( who will not see eternal life) take care of themselves. 

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
 

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

How ever long it really is it is referred to as a thousand years.  Good enough for me.  I shall refer to it in the same fashion
 

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Coincidence?  Works out perfectly for me.  

[DeighAnn]

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.


Doesn't mean they have to stay that way. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by DeighAnn
add sentence

[DeighAnn]

THEN THEY ALSO WHICH ARE FALLEN ASLEEP IN CHRIST ARE PERISHED.  


 

[R. Hartono]

12 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

( the phrase "thousand years" is an allegorical statement referring to "completeness of time" (In this context it would be forever).

 

The thousand years is abt Jesus government on earth when He returns :

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is over against Jerusalem toward the east: and the mount of Olives shall be divided in the midst ...