Diaste Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2021 17 hours ago, Josheb said: Hmmm... So scripture does not explicitly state anything specifically about the recreational use of marijuana or cocaine, the appropriateness of abortion, nor the trinity. You think we should be silent about such things? I don't think we have any business filling gaps. There are many mysteries in scripture and those hidden things will be revealed in due time. If we build doctrine from what isn't there it's just false doctrine. Scripture speaks to the Trinity pretty clearly. There are explicit prohibitions against murder. I see nothing about drugs specifically but I do see an emphasis on self control and being the master of one's life. I also see Paul suggest quite strongly obedience to the laws of man as though they were established by God, which they are. Many things would fall under the umbrella of these two ideas. But if marijuana is legal in your state and a person allows themselves to be at liberty and it's inoffensive to them....whatever. It's not evil just because it exists. That would be tantamount to saying Christ is evil since He made cannabis, the coca tree, peyote, opium, etc. If one is going to say some things are evil by virtue of existence then many appropriate and helpful uses of natural substances would be condemned. Think of all the suffering eliminated by the opium poppy. This is a good example of gap filling the silence of scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.76 Reputation: 13,562 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2021 @Your closest friendnt I went back and read you comments on this again. So far as I can tell we AGREE on the subject. Please tell me specifically where you think we disagree?????? Secondly- I do not respect or disrespect either way for people who are not fluent in English. I see all the same. In fact I have great respect for anyone who can go to a site that isn't their own language and make comments in another language. If I were to go to a Greek site I would be lost. I think it was important to bring the language barrier up not as a negative against you or anyone else. Only because in this instance I can see it as a potential barrier. I was unable to understand some of your statements entirely due to the way the syntax and spelling were laid out. Perhaps the translator used made a few mistakes? In any case, this WAS NOT derogatory toward you. Especially if you are using an iphone to text. I would have a difficult time typing English on an iphone much less another language. I guess we all have ego to some extent. I didn't see my ego as sticking out. I want to hear your views and the views of others. I am here to learn and help if I can. Did you notice me thanking people here for references that might help me understand them better? Did you notice my likes of people who were on opposite sides of my view who I thought brought out good points? .................so I simply fail to grasp why you seem offended. I apologize for the way something could have come across unintended. I wasn't aware it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted January 9, 2021 46 minutes ago, Josheb said: Yes, but verses written by the redeemed and regenerate to the redeemed and regenerate for the redeemed and regenerate should not be ripped from that context and made to apply to the not-redeemed unregenerate. You and I are not the unredeemed unregenerate non-believer. Our conversion is a done deal and we are actively at work with the Holy Spirit working out our salvation. Non-believers are not. They do not repent. And there isn't a single example of a non-believer salvifically repenting in the Bible. So do abuse scripture in that way. Happens a lot. Happens unintended. Shouldn't happen at all. What robs us of our peace of mind? Answer: Sin. So Jesus told us t0 repent. This isn't rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.55 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2021 14 hours ago, johnthebaptist said: But you don't develop a relationship with the Bible. You develop a relationship with the Lord. No-one has said anything about developing a relationship with the Bible! A very important part of our relationship with the Lord is reading his word; in fact, if you are continually reluctant to do that, then claims of a relationship with the Lord, who very much wants us to read his word, must be taken with a pinch of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Starise said: @Your closest friendnt I went back and read you comments on this again. So far as I can tell we AGREE on the subject. Please tell me specifically where you think we disagree?????? Secondly- I do not respect or disrespect either way for people who are not fluent in English. I see all the same. In fact I have great respect for anyone who can go to a site that isn't their own language and make comments in another language. If I were to go to a Greek site I would be lost. I think it was important to bring the language barrier up not as a negative against you or anyone else. Only because in this instance I can see it as a potential barrier. I was unable to understand some of your statements entirely due to the way the syntax and spelling were laid out. Perhaps the translator used made a few mistakes? In any case, this WAS NOT derogatory toward you. Especially if you are using an iphone to text. I would have a difficult time typing English on an iphone much less another language. I guess we all have ego to some extent. I didn't see my ego as sticking out. I want to hear your views and the views of others. I am here to learn and help if I can. Did you notice me thanking people here for references that might help me understand them better? Did you notice my likes of people who were on opposite sides of my view who I thought brought out good points? .................so I simply fail to grasp why you seem offended. I apologize for the way something could have come across unintended. I wasn't aware it did. After a while as the time goes by we are not the same, our perspective has change our mind set is not the same, we learn to hold back our selves. reading your post I am examining my self, I must have contributed in some way whether I see it or not. Later at some time If I look back and If I manage to look at what happened objectively I may find a lot of things that should have happened in another way and things about my self, I may see in my self something I do not like, but then that time I was not the person I am later on. There is something to learn without beating up my self, anyway that time I did not have the same mind I have at present why Judge my self with the mind I have today, when that time I had a different mind. In your post you did not point out how I may have responded to the issues in question and if it had be done in another way giving the same message with softer words the outcome would have been a "more civilized exchange ", So I would like to have the opportunity as you suggested to go back and examine the issues in question not with muscle but as my father repeatedly had suggested that some times I need to put on white gloves, no that this has anything to do with protecting my self, no of course not, but to use softer words with a bounce into them, to make someone reflect and not make someone go overdrive to the a defense mode. Your suggestion is good and we should give it a go and not only for our selves as mature believers but also as an example of how two parties having a dispute they are trying to make things up. But I have to ask my self: am I ready to the task? In my mind I think I am, but then, how about my skills? Now I need to pose, and see that my mind is ready but my skills, they want to follow my mind, but how is it possible as it takes time to mature into new skills. I want to but with a request as I am in that mode of learning new methods of communication bear with me and I will do it, go back and start my response a new. I am excited about it. Edited January 9, 2021 by Your closest friendnt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted January 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, David1701 said: No-one has said anything about developing a relationship with the Bible! A very important part of our relationship with the Lord is reading his word; in fact, if you are continually reluctant to do that, then claims of a relationship with the Lord, who very much wants us to read his word, must be taken with a pinch of salt. The ultimate goal is to have a relationship with the Lord. The Bible helps us do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.55 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2021 Just now, johnthebaptist said: The ultimate goal is to have a relationship with the Lord. The Bible helps us do that. Yes, finally you have admitted that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted January 9, 2021 1 minute ago, David1701 said: Yes, finally you have admitted that! I've forgotten what we arguing about, but I suspect it has something to do with whether or not we need to repent of our sin to experience a lasting peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted January 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, Josheb said: It is also non sequitur. You've stated you're no longer sure what the discussion is about. I encourage you to go back through the posts and find out. Then examine your own posts to see how you did because the ground through which sin works is the flesh. You're correct: it's not rocket surgery. SO all the non sequiturs and liberties taken with scripture (intentional or unintentional) prove to be occasions for repentance, beginning with the guy asserting the need for repentance on the discussion . Look, this op asks why good men go to hell, and although there was some resistance to the facts of scripture the fact is no one is good and whatever goodness we, the regenerate believer may have is commuted to us; it is not something we inherently possess. Therefore the question the op asks is something of a red herring because no one is good. Good men DO NOT go to hell. Hell is the default setting for humanity apart from Christ. All have sinned, no one seeks righteousness, and the wages of sin is death. Repentance is required in order to not go to hell. The problem is the unregenerate non-believer never repents. Every single mention of "we", "us," or "you" in the Bible having to do with someone repenting is either 1) a Jew living in a covenantal relationship with God - a Jew who believes God exists, 2) a regenerate believer in the resurrected Christ, or 3) on occasion the Gentile/pagan living outside of a covenant relationship who has come to know of God's existence (not just gods' existence). So it's a bad theology, a bad Christology, a bad pneumatology, a bad soteriology, maybe even a bad ecclesiology that begets questions like the one this op asks. It is a very easily resolved problem: there is no one who is good apart from Christ so good men do not go to hell. I do know that the Lord led me to repent of my sin, and that repentance has brought me peace of mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted January 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) On 1/7/2021 at 11:11 PM, johnthebaptist said: Matthew 4:17 is a simple command: Repent (of our sin). When we do, life clears up. But few want to repent. Repenting Of Sin is a good Thing . It will make you a more Moral person....there is Certainly nothing Wrong with that ....However, Let me assure you—- Hell will be replete with “ Moral” People.... If the Bible says “ repent of sins”..... by all means..... Do it ! If the Bible ever says “ Repent Of Sins in order to be Saved—- do THaT too! The Problem is the Bible NEVER says that.If you can find where it does in the KJV .....provide the Verse and I will give you or anybody else in here $1000... MY BIBLE says the Way to get Saved is to Simply Believe in Paul’s Gospel —— Given to Him personally by Jesus Christ.This Gospel That God will JUDGE YOU BY ( NOT your ability to Repent) can be found in 1Cor15:1-4 .... If and when you discover this verse that can Save you, make sure you don’t ADD to It or you will “ Fall from Grace” ( Gal5) Also , make sure you REST in IT and nothing else for your Salvation, lest God declare you guilty if “ Disobedience”and “ UNBELIEF”... In closing....PREACH another Gospel ....one that God declares “ False” and “ Perverted” and you will find yourself “ Accursed”—- damned for Eternity.... The PERVERTED Gospel most promoted these days would be THIS ONE—- “ Sure, Jesus died for your sins , but once you know “ that” , you must Reoent of all of your sins before you die , or you will go to Hell”... Another popular PERVERTED Gospel says, “ Jesus died for your Sins, but not the “ Willful” ones”......This False, Perverted “Gospel” stems from a confused “ take” on Hebrews 10, where the True “,Willful” Sin being addressed is the Sin Of UNBELIEF .....The Jews of that day had heard the True Gospel Of Jesus Being the “ONE TIME SACRIFICE” for Sin......They Rejected That Truth and proved it by continuing to offer their worthless animal Sacrifices at the Temple That was still open for business......a “ Business” made obsolete by the Sacrifice Of Jesus on the Cross....God Bless..... Edited January 9, 2021 by Blood Bought 1953 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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