Still Alive Posted January 15, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.32 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Diaste said: Yes. This has been a huge obstacle when talking with certain groups. It's a threat and has nothing to do with love or the truth of salvation in Jesus Christ. And my experience has been that "active" Christianity haters need the "turn or burn" message to be a part of Christianity. It is their main subject to argue for - and then condemn Christianity for it. When you tell them the bible does not teach that, they start arguing for it like their life depends on it. It's kinda weird. Take that off the table and they really don't have much to argue about, except ad-hominem against the bad acts of people that profess to be Christians, which is always there. And once that is covered, they don't really have much to argue. They also have a reason to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted January 15, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,634 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Still Alive said: And my experience has been that "active" Christianity haters need the "turn or burn" message to be a part of Christianity. It is their main subject to argue for - and then condemn Christianity for it. When you tell them the bible does not teach that, they start arguing for it like their life depends on it. It's kinda weird. Take that off the table and they really don't have much to argue about, except ad-hominem against the bad acts of people that profess to be Christians, which is always there. And once that is covered, they don't really have much to argue. They also have a reason to believe. Interesting. Atheists do the same sans the subterfuge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted January 15, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.32 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2021 15 minutes ago, Diaste said: Interesting. Atheists do the same sans the subterfuge. Exactly. Basically these are the "Christianity hating" atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frits Posted January 15, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 409 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/03/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/25/1961 Share Posted January 15, 2021 12 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said: The Bible does not teach that we "accept" Christ ??? Sorry Walter, I don't understand. When we hear (or read) the words of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, can't we accept them? While unwilling people reject it! God indeed has an election: He elects His Son Jesus Christ, and every man who is of Jesus Christ and loves Him. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frits Posted January 15, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 409 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/03/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/25/1961 Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Josheb said: Everyone sins. @Josheb You have not yet explained to us, how it is possible that the sinner Moses (your words!), after his death, was not in hell, but was carried by Michael in the Kingdom of God. In order to later be able to meet the Lord Jesus on the mountain together with Elijah. This is not just my opinion, but is stated in Jude 1:9 and Matt. 17:3 Mat 17:3 KJV And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted January 15, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,300 Content Per Day: 1.71 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2021 9 hours ago, popsthebuilder said: Scripture speaks of sin being done in ignorance as not nearly as bad as knowing sin. That is not in dispute. What I am saying is they cannot plead ' I didn't know it was wrong. ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted January 16, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,265 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,881 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2021 10 hours ago, Josheb said: Yes, but the monergistic pov (where I think Walter and I will agree) holds that it is only after we've been accepted that we can and do accept. This stands i juxtaposition (opposition) to the more volitional soteriologies that in the extreme cases hold sinfully dead and enslaved people can and do choose God on their own in their own might and all they need is to hear the gospel. Not even Arminius or Wesley agreed with that view. Humanity is depraved and incapable of choosing God apart from God's initiative. That is the historical view the church has held going all the way back to the ECFs. Highlights above are mine. Does everyone who 'is accepted' automatically accept, or does choice still remain to not accept? Quote; "Humanity is depraved and incapable of choosing God apart from God's initiative" How does God initiate, or, in other words, 'accept' someone, who is then 'enabled' that they can and do accept. Or not. What occurs/changes within them to enable them to accept. (HOW) What is the term you use 'God's initiative' and 'been accepted' in scripture? I ask because I have always had a somewhat different view. But maybe not. Thus the questions. Many years ago,I received a seed, I heard a tiny nugget of 'the word', planted in my mind, at a funeral. I unknowingly repented (changed some of my thinking) I believed it was the word that 'sparked a movement' of life in my dead spirit. A desire for more ensued, questions/study reaped more of the word, the seed grew, and a child was born. So, my thinking is/has always been it was the word that 'initiated' the life that eventually grew to fruition (born). "In the beginning was the word..............and the word was God! For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. "My sheep hear my voice" only? no 'all people' acceptance? (see above) Hope this all ties together... Thanks for any reply........ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted January 16, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: I don't think you are getting the full grasp of what Christ's atonement has accomplished. Each and every sin that one of God's elect has and ever will commit has been paid for. This was actually done in principle before the world began. This is incorrect. Christ paid for the sins of the world - believers and unbelievers - every single person breathing. Paid for once when he died. Christ does not die over and over any time someone accepts him. When we also say “died for the sins of the world” - we are also talking about past and future. 1 John 2:2 if I am not following your conversation correctly then I apologize. Edited January 16, 2021 by exrockstar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted January 16, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,863 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,763 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, exrockstar said: This is incorrect. Christ paid for the sins of the world - believers and unbelievers - every single person breathing. Paid for once when he died. Christ does not die over and over any time someone accepts him. When we also say “died for the sins of the world” - we are also talking about past and future. 1 John 2:2 if I am not following your conversation correctly then I apologize. You are correct 100%. God gave us one Christ, one Savior, one Lord and Judge for the whole world, for all mankind, this is Jesus Christ the Son of God. The people who had died before Jesus Christ, they also heard the Gospel where they were in the place of the dead, in Hades. That's where everyone was gathered at time of their death (with the exception of Abraham and his descendants who they gathered at their own place set apart from the rest of the world in life and in death,) before God in Jesus Christ open the Heaven to received Jesus Christ when he gave Heaven to Jesus Christ as his Inheritance and not only to him but also for anyone who believed in him, because everyone who believes in him he partakes of his Life giving Spirit. He is in his Life and in his Spirit, every believer is one with him by believing in him. We are adopted by him because of our faith in him, not because we are or we are not doing this or that, and not because we correctly understand this or that. We are in him as we are with our confessions and our wrong dogmatic understanding. This is one of those dogmatic teachings that keep believers from accepting what who have posted and this is what they say it happens after people die. How can they accept that all the dead before Jesus Christ died they heard the Gospel from Jesus Christ himself when he went to the place of the dead after he died on the Cross. For three days Jesus Christ preached the Gospel to those who had died before him, to the whole world, from the first Man to die Abel and all after him. Excluding a few whom God took before they died, like Elias the prophet of God in the Old Testament. (I will edit the post later on and finish it and include the scriptures one by one) Edited January 16, 2021 by Your closest friendnt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomBearTo4 Posted January 16, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2021 On 1/6/2021 at 10:17 AM, Who me said: Basic legal principal. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. This is a human, earth based legal principal. Romans 1:20 says that all people can see God through His handiwork of creation and have the opportunity to respond to that, so no man is without excuse. -- "For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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