I dont understand the trinity

[popsthebuilder]

5 hours ago, other one said:

If you remember when Jesus was baptized, the Father spoke out of heaven and the spirit was there in the form of a dove.  All three present at his baptism...    separately.

The Spirit of GOD filled HIS Christ wholly upon baptism. Indeed; Christ can be understood as the anointed by GOD. anointed with what? Oil to shine the Light of GOD? All three you say. To me simply all the doing of the One Holy Spirit of GOD which is GOD. By what other means is GOD known except by HIS Word and Spirit?

If you remember; man, being creation, is not Creator. It is the Spirit of GOD that fills the Holy Temple. Without said Spirit thw temple would just be an empty vessel.

If Jesus was the Light of GOD as man, then the Oil used as fuel for the Light would be the Holy Spirit of GOD.

The Spirit of GOD is the Spirit of the FATHER, as the FATHER is another title for GOD.

Edited February 5, 2021 by popsthebuilder

[popsthebuilder]

4 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

John liked allusions I think. Turns out that the gematria number for DOVE is the same as the Greek for ALPHA and OMEGA.

That's interesting. What is "gematria" please?

Edited February 5, 2021 by popsthebuilder

[Justin Adams]

4 minutes ago, popsthebuilder said:

That's interesting. What is "gematria" please?

Gematria is a numerological system by which Hebrew letters correspond to numbers. This system, developed by practitioners of Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism), derived from Greek influence and became a tool for interpreting biblical texts. In gematria, each Hebrew letter is represented by a number (for example, aleph = 1, bet = 2, etc.).

It is not necessarily pagan though.

[popsthebuilder]

2 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Gematria is a numerological system by which Hebrew letters correspond to numbers. This system, developed by practitioners of Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism), derived from Greek influence and became a tool for interpreting biblical texts. In gematria, each Hebrew letter is represented by a number (for example, aleph = 1, bet = 2, etc.).

It is not necessarily pagan though.

Thanks for the info.

[Uber Genius]

Controversial Discussion.

Jesus is God (in nature)

HS is God (divine in nature)

The Father is God (divine in nature)

God is One being.

God is composed (anthropomorphism aside) of three persons

So with those premises in mind:

God is not Jesus or Father or HS (because God is all three persons)

Each person in the trinity knows all true propositions and no false ones (is all-knowing or omniscient) and non-propositional knowledge such as Jesus knows he is not the HS and not the Father.

The non-propositional knowledge is where we get rid of modal conceptions of the trinity (ice, water, vapor) or role analogies (to my father I'm a son, to my wife I'm a husband, to my son, I'm a father).

3 separate minds, all have independent wills, and would know different facts. But are one being. 

Jesus also prays to the father (he is not praying to himself is he). Jesus also sends the HS (he is not sending himself or scripture would read I'm coming back in the form of the HS). Thus moralism is dead on arrival!

The greek mythological being that guards the underworld, Cerberus, although considered by some to be sacrilegious, is nevertheless, one being composed of three minds. 

No appeals to mystery here. That doesn't mean we fully understandGod's triune nature, but that is a single item on a long list of things we'd don't know and don't expect to know until we gain knowledge of God face-to-face, which is our hope!

[Waggles]

I will just have to wait until I rise up to be with my God and Saviour in the air then I will know much much more about all of this ... 

1Corin 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

1John 3:2  Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

Well worth the wait (and the trials and tribulations).

Edited February 5, 2021 by Waggles

[JohnD]

On 2/4/2021 at 9:10 PM, other one said:

I do hope all understands that the word "god" is used for many different heavenly beings....    there are many gods we are told.

Hebrew has no capitals and Greek manuscripts are all Caps. so in the bible original languages there is no difference in God, and god.  That is done by translators.

We have a pre-conceived idea when we see the word God, but the first century and earlier do not share that pre-conceived idea as to the meaning of that word.     The Spirit of God is not the Spirit of the Father.   Yahweh is not the Father.   Actually Yahweh is Jesus when he was in the form of god as the Bible mentions.  

In the sense that God's progressive revelation to man began with his direct interaction in the Garden Eden (Genesis 3:8), and man was essentially taking baby steps learning about reality... this is where ancients believed there was a god of the hills and a god of the valleys  (1 Kings 10:28)... and no doubt a god of thunder and lightning... etc... things man could not explain he tended to deify since the progenitor of the human race spoke of a God who walked with he and Eve in the garden in the cool of the day...

When man experienced angels his first thought was these must be what Adam was speaking of... gods...

The Bible often picks up on these misnomers as even human language was in flux at the time. Angels (Malak / Aggelos) for example are "messengers" or "sent ones" in both original languages... but the term angel was taken to mean their nature etc. It's not that the Bible is in error but merely records the types of language used as a matter of historic record. From the amalgamation of scripture we find the truth about angels that they are only messengers sent from a higher authority. Men can be angels. God can be an angel. 

Jesus (God incarnate) is a sent one by the Father (John 6:29). He is an Angel of the LORD.

The Holy Spirit is sent by both Father and Son (John 14:26, John 15:26) and is an Angel of the LORD.

Now that we have the fuller (if not the complete) revelation of God's Word we can determine these things from the scriptures (under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit of course).

I like to think of the ancient times as God walking humanity through baby steps with everything. Man sees the lightning. "God?"

The reply... "No, bigger. Much Bigger."

Man sees the sun... "God?"

"Bigger, much bigger..."

etc.

 

[JohnD]

The term god (elohiym or more basic ayilohiym) is "mighty ones" or "powerful ones" and as human understanding and language definition increased these terms were essentially weeded out of inferior definitions. God taught I AM God and there is no other... in Isaiah 46 etc.

Interesting to note that Jesus was not making an admission at this point, rather he was challenging the qualification of those in company to judge whether or not he was blaspheming or speaking truth:

John 10:30–38 (NKJV)
30 I and My Father are one.”
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’?
35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

He was saying in effect, 'if you cannot solve this minor issue, how can you broach the greater matter that I AM God incarnate?'

God sometimes mocks our indignation, as he did Job asking where Job was when the foundations of the earth were laid... "surely you know, surely you were there."

"Ye are gods" may well have been just a taunt.

The devil has the five I wills and I will be like God, but God responded you will be dead and buried like a mere man (Isaiah 14).

Also, God spoke of Moses as his representative to Pharaoh prefiguring his relationship to Moses:

Exodus 7:1 (AV)
1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

So, Jesus in John 10 was saying if you can't solve this... who are you to judge?

[JohnD]

27 minutes ago, JohnD said:

On 2/5/2021 at 6:12 AM, popsthebuilder said:

"The Spirit of God is not the Spirit of the Father."

 

Can you provide biblical support for this claim please?

Can you?

John 14:26 (NASB95)
26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

The Holy Spirit / Holy Ghost / Spirit of the LORD / Spirit of God is not the Father since one cannot SEND one's self. One comes or goes.

 

[JohnD]

1 Corinthians 2:10 (NASB95)
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

If the Father (who is in ultimate authority over all see Acts 1:7) has to be searched by the Spirit... then the Spirit is not the Father.