Genesis 4:7

[Frits]

18 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Cain refuse to follow instruction given by God. This example of Cain shows the spirit that one allows to overcome them when righteousness is show to them and they choose different. Let's look vesre 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. When a person refuse instructions, after a period of time the door for Satan or any other evil spirit can come in. Paul say in Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. When you are righteous by God, you get blessing from God, but Cain wouldn't do right. So what happen is, after a while Cain stubbornness gave over to Satan and he killed his brother. Let's go read something from  Jude 1:11  Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. So Cain is known all through the Bible as a wicked person.

 

Here's another situation how sin lieth at the door. A married couple together for a while, and one stop sleeping with the other. This goes on for a while. Let's take a look what Paul says about this in 1 Corinthians 7: 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. So if these instruction are not followed, there's a chance sin can enter the marriage. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi bro. Tan,

Nice you participate in this meditation!

 

God bless you.

[Riverwalker]

2 hours ago, Frits said:

If I understand correctly what you are trying to say:
By sinning Adam became depraved. Same depravenes like the devil?
And did Adam pass this depravenes on to Cain, and not to Abel?  And how? Is this said in Rm.5:12? 

What do you think of the following metaphor:

Imagine 100 healthy people living in a resort. Outside the resort, all people have covid!
Then, there is one person who opens the door of the resort, and lets all the covid carriers in!
So by one person covid came into the resort!  Not by birth, not by DNA, but simply because he opened the door of the resort.
And the devil is much more 'contagious' and more deadly to humans than covid!

What do you think?

In Lk.4:6 the devil said: "power is delivered unto me".

I think through Adam, what do you think?  I think Adam opened the door of the kingdom of "earth" and thus let in the devil and his henchman.

God bless you.

1. Corruption, depraveness, sinful nature, yes whatever you want to call it. Interesting that the same sin Satan commited "I shall be like God" is the same temptation he used on Adam and Eve

Isaiah 12: 12“How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High”’ 

Genesis 3:4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

2. Your metaphor is incorrect, because there are no healthy people.  Because the first man was the first sinner and everyone after that was born "Bad"

3. There you are correct, all authority was given to Adam and he ceded it to satan, making him "the god of this world". Jesus did not dispute the devil's claim to power

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Frits]

On 1/15/2021 at 8:39 PM, Riverwalker said:

Corruption, depraveness, sinful nature, yes whatever you want to call it.

Ok, I'll try to think along with you:
But if Adam was totally corrupted by the Fall and so were his descendants, why was sin at Cain's door?  So Cain would be bad from his conception? But then there is no reason to corrupt him, after all he was always bad in this hypothesis!  A born sinner!
Does that make sense?
I read Eph.2: 1 and it says that a man is dead in crimes, so what he himself has done. Not what his parents did.

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins."

Do you understand what I want to say?

[Justin Adams]

24 minutes ago, Frits said:

But if Adam was totally corrupted by the Fall and so were his descendants, why was sin at Cain's door?

And also this is theologically a minefield. Yeshua was without sin yet born of a woman. How does that work? These silly Augustine, Calvinist and Lutheran views have caused the downfall of so many believers.

Adam, like us, inherited death. We do NOT inherit his guilt. There is NO scripture that says this unless you are twisting it all.

Just read the various confessions and baptismal rites. They are a concoction of misapplied soteriology that tries to support a WRONG ASSUMPTION.

Read about 'TULIP'. If that is your 'god' then you are mistaken. That NEVER describes the God I love and worship! My God is far above all man-ology!!!

[Frits]

38 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

And also this is theologically a minefield. Yeshua was without sin yet born of a woman. How does that work? These silly Augustine, Calvinist and Lutheran views have caused the downfall of so many believers.

Adam, like us, inherited death. We do NOT inherit his guilt. There is NO scripture that says this unless you are twisting it all.

Just read the various confessions and baptismal rites. They are a concoction of misapplied soteriology that tries to support a WRONG ASSUMPTION.

Read about 'TULIP'. If that is your 'god' then you are mistaken. That NEVER describes the God I love and worship! My God is far above all man-ology!!!

I fully agree bro,

I think every human is being born without guilt.

[DeighAnn]

The first sin was disobeying a command of God.  

This is sin.  

As for Cain, 

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.


Cain wanted to worship God HIS way.   Able worshipped God,  Gods way.  


Maybe Cain not being in Adams Genealogy REALLY does means something.  

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

[Riverwalker]

5 hours ago, Frits said:

Ok, I'll try to think along with you:
But if Adam was totally corrupted by the Fall and so were his descendants, why was sin at Cain's door?  So Cain would be bad from his conception? But then there is no reason to corrupt him, after all he was always bad in this hypothesis!  A born sinner!
Does that make sense?
I read Eph.2: 1 and it says that a man is dead in crimes, so what he himself has done. Not what his parents did.

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins."

Do you understand what I want to say?

Sin is also a choice. Always a choice, a choice we all make, and I imagine since we are dealing with the first people, God is teaching them and us a lesson on how we fall into that sin...with the choices we make.

By birth we are corrupt, we inherit a "sin nature" from Adam, but we still are responsible, because we still choose to sin. And it is our sin, not Adam's, that condemns us. And until we sin,  that corruption has not born fruit.

So when Cain decided he was going to shortcut God's desired sacrifice, he chose to disobey God, and in that sin gained entrance.

SO we are born with the irresistible nature to sin, but we have no guilt, until we do sin, and we do all sin

Romans 3: 

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”

 

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 

But his salvation redeems us from that guilt and sin

Edited January 17, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Riverwalker]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

And also this is theologically a minefield. Yeshua was without sin yet born of a woman. How does that work? These silly Augustine, Calvinist and Lutheran views have caused the downfall of so many believers.

Adam, like us, inherited death. We do NOT inherit his guilt. There is NO scripture that says this unless you are twisting it all.

Just read the various confessions and baptismal rites. They are a concoction of misapplied soteriology that tries to support a WRONG ASSUMPTION.

Read about 'TULIP'. If that is your 'god' then you are mistaken. That NEVER describes the God I love and worship! My God is far above all man-ology!!!

No where anywhere in this thread has anyone said we inherit Adam's guilt.  We inherit the sin nature and death.....but we have enough of our own sins to anchor us to damnation without Jesus Christ

[DeighAnn]

27 minutes ago, SONshine said:

Amen.  Unfortunately, there is not much teaching about this . . . 

Satan has made good and sure by attaching all sorts of lies to it so it can't even be broached anymore.  I figure when the time is right God will see to it that it is.  Good to see you SEE.  A big level step that clears up lots of confusion.  So hard to understand the end if you don't understand the beginning.  Gods Blessings upon you. 

[Frits]

On 1/17/2021 at 6:05 PM, Riverwalker said:

By birth we are corrupt, we inherit a "sin nature" from Adam

Bro Riverwalker,

Again a parable:

Our country (the Netherlands) was occupied by Nazi Germany in the Second World War.
The enemy had entered our country and was in control!  Everyone in the Netherlands was confronted daily with the yoke of the enemy.

But the children born in our country at that time (1940-1945), were still Dutch and not Germans.
Because we are dominated by an occupier (the devil), because one man (Adam) has relinquished dominion (Lk.4:6) and thus sin has entered the world (Rm.5:12), still means not yet that by birth we got the nature of the enemy?  On the other hand, the nature of the enemy was present in those Dutch who fully agreed with the occupier, these were the NSB members! After the war they were punished.

God bless you.