What Does it Mean to Believe?

[David1701]

12 hours ago, Hopefully said:

I believed In God before I changed my life to do the things he says. I am not one who thinks it’s okay to keep sinning because I am saved. I have repented my habitual intentional sins and I know God forgives and will convict me of the sins I will do in the future. 
 

Also I don’t consider it my position but Gods position because he is who I got it from.

“Do what God’s teaching says; don’t just listen and do nothing. When you only sit and listen, you are fooling yourselves. Hearing God’s teaching and doing nothing is like looking at your face in the mirror and doing nothing about what you saw. You go away and immediately forget how bad you looked. But when you look into God’s perfect law that sets people free, pay attention to it. If you do what it says, you will have God’s blessing. Never just listen to his teaching and forget what you heard.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1: 22-25

None of that answers my question.  If you don't want to answer it, then that's up to you; but, it is an important one, so here it is again, in case you are now willing to answer it.

Do you bear good fruit, because God has made you a good tree (i.e. by making you born again), or, do you become a good tree, by virtue of bearing good fruit?

[JohnD]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:47 PM, LearningToLetGo said:

Several years ago I watched a video on Prager University's YouTube channel where Dennis Prager interviewed Jordan Peterson. Prager asked Peterson if he believed in God, to which Peterson replied that he lives his life as if there were a God. Peterson further went on to explain that to believe something is to act it out fully, and in this context that means to not simply say one believes but to life a life of courage, compassion and sacrifice commensurate with that belief. This observation has stuck with me ever since. It seems there are many degrees of action that Christians take in living out faith, from attending church on Sunday and giving to charity on one end to embarking on missionary works in dark and dangerous jungles or dry and arid deserts on the other. I'm not sure where I want this thread to go, but I think this might be a good subject of conversation.

I am leery of definitions to believe because they often spell out works theology as the definition.

While I agree belief is evidenced by our actions ac cording to the belief (James 2), it is not predicated 

on those actions.

I BELIEVE the ground neath my feet is solid thus I act accordingly.

I don't go around  testing each step as though there is no solidity to the ground. 

I believe I can pick up a glass of water and I do it. Without even thinking about it.

I don't track down which motor neurons it takes to accomplish this.

I think this is what Jesus spoke of in our having a child-like faith.

You will also note encapsulated in these kinds of definitions for belief are

the definer's opinions / superstitions / feelings as to what we should do to

qualify as a believer and this is not God's idea but mans.

The traditions and teachings of man nullify the word of God (Mark 7:13)

and make even the worship of Christ null and void (Mark 7:7).

Don't complicate or muck up the simplicity that is Christ.

[Hopefully]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Don't complicate or muck up the simplicity that is Christ.

Amen.

[LearningToLetGo]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

I am leery of definitions to believe because they often spell out works theology as the definition.

While I agree belief is evidenced by our actions ac cording to the belief (James 2), it is not predicated 

on those actions.

It's not my intention to advocate a works theology per-se. It seems that faith in Jesus is necessarily transformative. One becomes different in a fundamental way and this difference manifests in our daily lives. To an outside observer this difference appears as works but that is a flaw of perception. The reality is one is no longer the same and thus no longer capable of prior behaviors.

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, LearningToLetGo said:

It's not my intention to advocate a works theology per-se. It seems that faith in Jesus is necessarily transformative. One becomes different in a fundamental way and this difference manifests in our daily lives. To an outside observer this difference appears as works but that is a flaw of perception. The reality is one is no longer the same and thus no longer capable of prior behaviors.

Including prodigals.

They may appear to have renounced the faith and returned

to the world but there is a Holy Spirit working in them...

guilt etc.

trying to bring them back... and if that will never happen...

1 Corinthians 5:5 (AV)
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[steve morrow]

DEFINITIONS 

1 JOHN 2:4  HE  THAT  SAITH  I  KNOW  HIM  AND  KEEPETH  NOT  HIS  COMMANDMENTS  IS  A  LIAR  AND  THE  TRUTH  IS  NOT  IN  HIM 

2 THESSALONIANS 1:7  and to you who are troubled rest with us when  THE  LORD  JESUS  shall be revealed from heaven with  HIS  mighty  angels  --1:8-- in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that ---KNOW  NOT  GOD---AND  THAT  OBEY  NOT  THE  GOSPEL  OF  OUR  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

 

JESUS  TAUGHT  US  AND  IS  NOW  SEATED  AT  THE  RIGHT  HAND  OF  GOD  IN  HEAVEN

 

LUKE 8:21  and  HE  answered and said  MY  mother  and  MY  brethren  are  these  which hear the word of  GOD  --AND  DO  IT--

REVELATION 21:8  but  the  fearful and --UNBELIEVEING-- and the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers and idolaters --AND  ALL  LIARS--shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone which is the second death 

 

do false teachers do a good work

do teachers of truth do good works believing in the testimonies of  JESUS  CHRIST

PROVERBS 17:4 a wicked doer giveth heed to false lips and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue 

2 CORINTHIANS 13:8  for we can do nothing against the truth but for the truth

 

               **********************************************

2 TIMOTHY 2:19  NEVERTHELESS  THE  FOUNDATION  OF GOD STANDETH  SURE  HAVING  THIS  SEAL  THE  LORD  KNOWETH  THEM  THAT  ARE  HIS  AND  LET  EVERYONE  THAT  NAMETH  THE  NAME  OF  CHRIST  DEPART  FROM  INIQUITY 

               **********************************************

ACTS 3:26  UNTO  YOU  FIRST  GOD  HAVING  RAISED  UP  HIS  SON  JESUS  --SENT  HIM-- TO  BLESS  YOU  IN  TURNING  EVERYONE OF  YOU  FROM  HIS  INIQUITIES

               **********************************************

MARK 8:35  FOR  WHOSOEVER  WILL  SAVE  HIS  LIFE  SHALL  LOSE  IT  BUT  WHOSOEVER  SHALL  LOSE  HIS  LIFE  FOR  MY  SAKE  AND  THE  GOSPELS  THE  SAME  SHALL  SAVE  IT 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST   

[Uber Genius]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:47 PM, LearningToLetGo said:

Several years ago I watched a video on Prager University's YouTube channel where Dennis Prager interviewed Jordan Peterson. Prager asked Peterson if he believed in God, to which Peterson replied that he lives his life as if there were a God. Peterson further went on to explain that to believe something is to act it out fully, and in this context that means to not simply say one believes but to life a life of courage, compassion and sacrifice commensurate with that belief. This observation has stuck with me ever since. It seems there are many degrees of action that Christians take in living out faith, from attending church on Sunday and giving to charity on one end to embarking on missionary works in dark and dangerous jungles or dry and arid deserts on the other. I'm not sure where I want this thread to go, but I think this might be a good subject of conversation.

Stop watching Jordon Peterson.

He is agnostic and uses doublespeak to confuse those who haven't delved deeply into psychology or philosophy, especially Nietzsche, and Jung. 

He equivocates (changes common meanings of terms so to conflate (misrepresent common meaning and confuse listeners). He uses flowery, intellectual-sounding prose (opps maybe I should stop there), to repspond to direct questions so many have made the mistake that Jordon is a theist, Not even close!

He is a postmodern thinker who falls back into modernity when talking about the truth-value of whatever is his subject of the day!

Don't let his derision of intersectionality and political correctness fool you into believing he. Has anything in common with Christians or theists, or people whom beiieve in objective truth.

[Uber Genius]

On 1/31/2021 at 6:40 AM, David1701 said:

Do you bear good fruit, because God has made you a good tree (i.e. by making you born again), or, do you become a good tree, by virtue of bearing good fruit?

Probably worth posting as a new post. It is not clear to me that Christians on this forum agree. Although it might be difficult to find Biblical support for one of these views without proof-texting and eisegesis. 

[Arrabon]

In my research, definitions of many words have changed over the last 2000+ years, including this word, believe.

Most words have slightly different meanings depending on the context.

That's why we have a bible thesaurus, or a bible concordance, bible dictionary, or other bible word helps, not to mention koine Greek word studies.

pisteuo is the koine Greek word for believe that leads you to other similar words that are progressive to fully "KNOWING", OIDA,  Christ.

It's a facinating study that leads you to a deeper more complete understanding, that will surprise you at how the meaning and application in many instances has changed, and what God really had in mind many times when He wrote this word believe many times through the original authors in the original language.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Arrabon

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Uber Genius said:

Probably worth posting as a new post. It is not clear to me that Christians on this forum agree. Although it might be difficult to find Biblical support for one of these views without proof-texting and eisegesis. 

I only wanted to find out the other poster's view, because I had a suspicion that it was a works-righteousness view; however, I was not certain and I wanted to give him the chance to show clearly what he believes.  I would not have insisted on only one of those two views (which are very simplified), if he gave good reasons for another view.

Edited February 1, 2021 by David1701