Does water baptism precede regeneration?

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Riverwalker said:

Great post, thank you.

 I would suggest that baptism is an outward confession of an inner faith. And a very wonderful experience. No it does not save. You don't have to be baptized to be a Christian, just like you don't have to praise and worship to be a Christian, but why would you forego the opportunity?

Good comment but my response would be then ... why not honor or want to keep any and all, and even those that might still yet to come, the many rituals and practices of the RCC? Example is why not agree to go to confession to a priest?  Why forego that opportunity?

Because they are all man made - and take away from what our Messiah said and did! No extra credits here. 

Charlie

[Sower]

14 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Good comment but my response would be then ... why not honor or want to keep any and all, and even those that might still yet to come, the many rituals and practices of the RCC? Example is why not agree to go to confession to a priest?  Why forego that opportunity?

Because they are all man made - and take away from what our Messiah said and did! No extra credits here. 

Charlie

I don't know, but seems if it was good enough for my savior/creator,
then it's good enough me.

ps....I was a double dipper.......
Once as a baby in RCC.
Once later when saved.

I wasn't ashamed to make public testimony of my trust in Jesus.
It was a no brainer.

[Waggles]

5 hours ago, Regenerated-Adult said:

The Bible, if it is inerrant and the words of God literally, doesn't allow for any confusion on this point anywhere, since salvation is by the HOLY SPIRIT and independent of WATER BAPTISM, though the latter ritual surely can help a person gain some virtues and not to lose their salvation. 

Water baptism by full immersion is fundamental to salvation and is coupled with baptism of the Holy Spirit - the two go together and are mandatory.

Here is the template for disciples of Jesus:

Matthew 3:13  Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 
14  John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 
15  But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness.” Then he consented. 
16  And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 
17  and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” 

This is the story of the Christian church from Acts onwards and upheld in all the epistles. 

Acts 2:37  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto *Peter and the rest of the apostles, [Men] Brethren, what shall we do? 
38  And Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized each of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto remission of your *sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 
39  For to you is the promise, and to your *children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our *God shall call unto him. 

John 3:5  *Jesus answered, Amen, Amen, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of *God.

Acts 8:12  But when they believed *Philip preaching good tidings concerning the kingdom of *God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. 
13  And *Simon himself also believed: and being baptized, he continued with *Philip; and beholding signs done and great miracles, he was amazed. 
14  Now when the apostles, those at Jerusalem, heard that *Samaria had received the word of *God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 
15  who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they receive the Holy Spirit: 
16  for as yet He was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 

Acts 19:5  And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 
6  And when *Paul had laid *hands upon them, the Holy *Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Waggles

[Waggles]

5 hours ago, Regenerated-Adult said:

If Jesus could lose any of the humans the Father gave unto Him, to whom they were drawn and given to the Son, then God is not God because God failed to do something He wanted to do but couldn't.

OSAS is false doctrine.

God is ever faithful and desires that all would come to salvation. 

God does not lose disciples because he fails to keep us in his hand. Christians, even Spirit-filled disciples, walk away from their faith and throw in the towel.

They are referred to as backsliders. If disciples or believers could not stray from their faithfulness then the epistles would not have so many warnings to remain steadfast and true; to stay on course; to finish the race; not to believe false prophets and false doctrines. 

2Timothy 2:17  And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 
18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 

Hebrews 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 
5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 
6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 

[Riverwalker]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Good comment but my response would be then ... why not honor or want to keep any and all, and even those that might still yet to come, the many rituals and practices of the RCC? Example is why not agree to go to confession to a priest?  Why forego that opportunity?

Because they are all man made - and take away from what our Messiah said and did! No extra credits here. 

Charlie

There is a difference between "honoring a tradition" and biblical truth sometimes.  You can follow m0st rituals as you like, as long as they aren't prohibited by scripture and that you do not ascribe them the weight of biblical truth

[Arrabon]

How does everyone here deal with  Mark 16:16, "He who has BELIEVED and been BAPTIZED  shall be SAVED"!

It doesn't say , he who has believed and has been saved shall be baptized!

Edited February 1, 2021 by Arrabon

[Charlie744]

53 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

There is a difference between "honoring a tradition" and biblical truth sometimes.  You can follow m0st rituals as you like, as long as they aren't prohibited by scripture and that you do not ascribe them the weight of biblical truth

Well, that is exactly what the RCC says about worshipping the Virgin Mary and having statues, confessionals, praying to saints, etc., Man has always decided what is okay to include in their worship and practices - major or minor. 

As far as biblical truth, that is an extremely important point but we (mankind) tend to place some of our "truths" in the black and white when they belong in the gray. I certainly believe Jesus declared we must be born of both water and spirit.... but the water He was referring to is our natural birth process not a baptism, Others contend this is to be interpreted as the water baptism - hence the disagreement. But I believe all agree we must be baptised in the Holy Spirit..... Bottom line FOR ME, is the Holy Spirit is sufficient and a water baptism does not add to our salvation..... is in for man's symbolism only. Charlie

[Riverwalker]

6 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Well, that is exactly what the RCC says about worshipping the Virgin Mary and having statues, confessionals, praying to saints, etc., Man has always decided what is okay to include in their worship and practices - major or minor. 

And did you NOT see where I stated as long as it not prohibited by the bible?

[Charlie744]

10 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

And did you NOT see where I stated as long as it not prohibited by the bible?

Yes I saw it and I think I addressed that as well in that many will / may interpret Scripture as truth even when it is not there.......Their misinterpretations turn into required practices..... Charlie

[Waggles]

2 hours ago, Arrabon said:

How does everyone here deal with  Mark 16:16, "He who has BELIEVED and been BAPTIZED  shall be SAVED"!

for me that states that when a person is witnessed to and they believe (act upon) the gospel of salvation (obedience to the commandments of God) then such a person would in good conscience be baptised in water and Spirit. 

Acts 2:37  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, [Men] Brethren, what shall we do? 
38  And Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized each of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [baptism of the Holy Spirit as expounded in Acts]
39  For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.