Should I Tell My Non-Christian Friends God has Determined Them to Go to Hell?

[David1701]

6 minutes ago, Regenerated-Adult said:

And:-

¹¹ He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

¹² Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

Note the word "many" there.

Yes, "many", not every person who has ever lived.

[Regenerated-Adult]

2 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

Now that you claim to be a Calvinist and we see your response to Calvin's double predestination theology of choosing some to be saved and others to be damned, how do you justify your claim say ,"Unless they repent and trust in Jesus," this is not something someone can chose to do under Calvinism. 

Humans are not free to respond to God in Calvin's view or Luther's

Arminius is the one who tried to reform the Reformers by rejecting limited atonement, irresistible grace, and unconditional election.

If you think that man can resist grace since "repent and trust" are human actions and if rejected demonstrate God's plan for election thwarted by human action. 

You need to remove human action from descriptions of God's salvation or equivocate terms by saying "repent and trust" are performed like a puppet on a string by those God would save.

Are you a synergist, or do you abhor that terminology?  Did your action of believing derive wholly from yourself independently of God's grace?  In other words, was it your own faith that saved you or did God save you?  Or is it somehow both of those things simultaneously happening at the same time?  How do you explain grace that is given to you independently of your own volition?

[Uber Genius]

24 minutes ago, David1701 said:

It was not a trick question.

Is. 53:4-8 (VW)

4 Truly He has borne our sicknesses, and carried our pain; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, each one to his own way; and Jehovah has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.
7 He has been oppressed, and He was afflicted; yet He opens not His mouth. He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a sheep before its shearers is mute, so He opens not His mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken.

So, the question is, who are the "My people", for whom Jesus was stricken?

John 10:14-16 (VW)

14 I am the Good Shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must lead, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one Shepherd.

The answer is that Jesus laid down his life for his sheep, from Jews and Gentiles.

Rev. 5:9 (VW) And they sing a new song, saying: You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Congrats ...answering the clear soteriological references about Christ from several NT authors, with obscure references from the OT or non-spteriological apocryphal writings!

Please engage my post references! Please use clear soteriologic passages like the ones I referenced. 

Please don't read in limited atonement into passages that don't specify that aspect whatsoever. 

[David1701]

4 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

Now that you claim to be a Calvinist and we see your response to Calvin's double predestination theology of choosing some to be saved and others to be damned, how do you justify your claim say ,"Unless they repent and trust in Jesus," this is not something someone can chose to do under Calvinism. 

Humans are not free to respond to God in Calvin's view or Luther's

Arminius is the one who tried to reform the Reformers by rejecting limited atonement, irresistible grace, and unconditional election.

If you think that man can resist grace since "repent and trust" are human actions and if rejected demonstrate God's plan for election thwarted by human action. 

You need to remove human action from descriptions of God's salvation or equivocate terms by saying "repent and trust" are performed like a puppet on a string by those God would save.

The Bible says that repentance and faith are gifts from God.  If you want to caricature that as being "like a puppet on a string", then that's between you and God (I don't recommend it).

2 Tim. 2:25,26 (EMTV)

25 in meekness instructing those that oppose, if God perhaps may give them repentance, to a full knowledge of the truth,
26 and they regain their senses and escape out of the snare of the devil, having been captured alive by him to do his will. 

Phil. 1:29 (KJV) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[Regenerated-Adult]

3 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

You seemed to miss the point. 

The doctrine in question has nothing to do with whether people go to hell.

did you read the post?

reread and respond.

I certainly have been reading the responses in this thread and specifically asking you questions or trying to understand your POV.  

I cannot really understand how if Jesus died for everybody and not everybody is saved, how your arguments against the doctrines of grace, which is simply just Bible exegesis, holds water.  Are you a universalist?  

If if has nothing to do with people going to hell, what is the purpose of claiming that Jesus died for all people when clearly, in context, the scriptures describe Jesus dying for "many" and that people will go to hell at the same time?  What am I missing here?

[David1701]

1 minute ago, Uber Genius said:

Congrats ...answering the clear soteriological references about Christ from several NT authors, with obscure references from the OT or non-spteriological apocryphal writings!

Please engage my post references! Please use clear soteriologic passages like the ones I referenced. 

Obscure references from the OT???  Since when is Isaiah 53 an obscure reference?  It is one of THE main Bible passages on the atonement!

[Uber Genius]

15 minutes ago, Regenerated-Adult said:

Are you a synergist, or do you abhor that terminology?  Did your action of believing derive wholly from yourself independently of God's grace?  In other words, was it your own faith that saved you or did God save you?  Or is it somehow both of those things simultaneously happening at the same time?  How do you explain grace that is given to you independently of your own volition?

Did you read my post? I haven't specifies any such concept! 

I have been talking about the abhorrent doctrine specified in the passage by John Calvin in his Institutes known as double predestination! The fact that he chooses with reference to how a personwoyld act, whether they go to hell or heaven! 

If you want to defend God damning people to hell before he create people who. Have no free will to respond to the gospel and repent! Why be my guest!

Ifnyou want to create a red-herring and discuss monergistic vs synergistic concepts of how man responses then post it as a new topic in soteriology section, don't lead the conversation away from justifying how a all loving God can create people predestined to hell and not allowing them to engage the gospel or repent and not utterly destroy the meaning of "loving" let alone, "all-loving."

[Uber Genius]

It took 10 pages but I have flushed out two Calvinists. Now let's see if either wants to defend their namesake's double predestination doctrine. So far it has been dodge, duck, dive, dip, and dodge.

[Waggles]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

so everyone who did not believe in Jesus Christ will be judged according to his sins and thrown into the lake of fire.

"everyone" ? please elaborate

That is not what scripture teaches us.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Waggles

[Waggles]

Deu 32:8  When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. 
9  But the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. 

So God after the rebellion of some angels and also human rebellions divides the nations under the rule of these nations [hence Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etc].

So if the majority of human beings are under the oppressive rule of fallen angels and only Jacob/Israel belongs to God - then where does that leave the fate of the great majority of humankind in the scheme of things salvation wise??