Protestant? Catholic? Confused...

[Peterlag]

4 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 There are  a few questions in your post.

And they are good questions. 

But there is something in your post that it giving rise to questions that you are seeking proof of Jesus Christ raising from the dead and never dieing again that he is alive in the Heavenly with the Heavenly Father in a very specific and narrow window as per your comment. 

This position taken can be challenged. 

We all know of the existence of powers that can imitate many of things but not all Jesus Christ did. 

And what Moses did in Egypt in the presence of Pharaoh and the Priests of their Gods.

Paul did not seek to proved Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God high above all powers by doing rebuking evil spirits or even doing miracles.

Paul preached the Gospel by preaching Jesus Christ as the inheritor of Heaven.  

Paul preached Jesus Christ as a Patriarch of the children of God according to the Spirit of Life in them. 

He preached Jesus Christ as a Patriarch with the Heavenly Inheritance. 

And the Lord of all, simple meaning is that he can never loose what he has.

He will remained the Heavenly inheritor and high above all as the Lord and Judge of all.

This is simply illustrated when we say that every knee shall bow down in the name of Jesus Christ.  

The Greeks and the Romans welcome the news of a Heavenly Inheritance.  

They rejoiced at the news that at death they are going to be with their Patriarch Jesus Christ because he is their Savior, meaning they depend on him to be their Savior for ever more. 

Unless Jesus changed they cannot be disinherited from Heaven. 

Jesus Christ needs to be disinherited from Heaven first before they do.

They are the people of God in him , in his name. They are born of him and if they are born of him they are born from above from , they are in God because Jesus Christ is in God. 

I have chosen my words very carefully.  

Jesus Christ show to Peter in his vision of the great sheet that was up in Heaven with Jesus Christ and Peter show people from all Cultures and Nations, all those people from all over the world whom Jesus rescued from the place of the dead, whom they believed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ when Jesus Christ preached it to them those three days while he was on the place of the dead.

Three sheets , three times Jesus Christ let his fishing nets in the place of the dead and show to Peter his nets were overflowing with those who believe in him.

And that what Jesus Christ were doing that time, he was telling Peter to throw his nets of the Gospel to the  Cornelius family and many will believe and be included in the family of God in believing in Jesus Christ who died for the forgiveness of their and the sins of the whole world. 

You:
Paul did not seek to proved Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God high above all powers by doing rebuking evil spirits or even doing miracles.

Paul:
My speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the spirit and of power:

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. 

[Dennis1209]

Here's an opinion worth considering:

on this rock. The word for “Peter,” Petros, means a small stone (John 1:42). Jesus used a play on words here with petra which means a foundation boulder (cf. 7:24, 25). Since the NT makes it abundantly clear that Christ is both the foundation (Acts 4:11, 12; 1 Cor. 3:11) and the head (Eph. 5:23) of the church, it is a mistake to think that here He is giving either of those roles to Peter. There is a sense in which the apostles played a foundational role in the building of the church (Eph. 2:20), but the role of primacy is reserved for Christ alone, not assigned to Peter. So Jesus’ words here are best interpreted as a simple play on words in that a boulder-like truth came from the mouth of one who was called a small stone. Peter himself explains the imagery in his first epistle: the church is built of “living stones” (1 Pet. 2:5) who, like Peter, confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Christ Himself is the “chief cornerstone” (1 Pet. 2:6, 7). church. Matthew is the only gospel where this term is found (see also 18:17). Christ called it “My church,” emphasizing that He alone is its Architect, Builder, Owner, and Lord. The Gr. word for church means “called out ones.” While God had since the beginning of redemptive history been gathering the redeemed by grace, the unique church He promised to build began at Pentecost with the coming of the Holy Spirit, by whom the Lord baptized believers into His body—which is the church (see notes on Acts 2:1–4; 1 Cor. 12:12, 13). the gates of Hades. Hades is the place of punishment for the spirits of dead unbelievers. The point of entry for such is death. This, then, is a Jewish phrase referring to death. Even death, the ultimate weapon of Satan (cf. Heb. 2:14, 15), has no power to stop the church. The blood of martyrs, in fact, has sped the growth of the church in size and spiritual power.

MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1423). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Another consideration, of which I won't delve into; is where were their feet planted when this occurred. There's a lot of historical and relevant information pertaining to Mt. Hermon.

[Riverwalker]

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Peter is the one God called first to preached the Gospel to the  Gentiles.

This happened when the Jesus Christ set him apart from his mission to the Roman Gentiled Cornelius family. 

The first time when Peter preached the Gospel to the Jews at the day of Pentecost and the second time when he preached the Gospel to Cornelius family when the Holy Spirit fell upon the uncircumcised and unbaptise Roman Gentiles in exactly the same unmistakable way as it happened in the day of Pentecost. 

Peter is the Rock upon which Jesus built his church. 

 

Even Peter disagrees with you, when He quotes Psalms 118

1 Peter 2:7

New King James Version

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who [a]are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

 

Jesus is the chief corner stone, not Peter

Edited February 17, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Dennis1209]

On 2/11/2021 at 5:36 PM, Logostician said:

How does the catholic church come to the conclusion that Peter is only for them.  Did Jesus talk about an apostolic succession?  I have nothing against catholics.  I think anyone who asks Jesus to be their savior will be saved, despite all the other rituals, that they may practice that Jesus did not teach.  But why not make it simple, and go directly to Jesus?  I honestly think that catholics are saved in spite of their catholicism, in the same way anyone else is, faith in Jesus Christ as the savior of the world, and their personal savior.

Well said, and I also believe there are saved Christians in the Catholic religion. However; we have to introduce a couple of words and some history into the Catholic culture; idolatry and paganism. Which have filtered down in form through the centuries from the Babylonian system. To keep this brief, I'll omit supporting scripture.

What's the definition of a cult? I'm not Catholic bashing, if any of the following is in error, please correct me

Praying to Mary, venerating and believing she was sinless. Praying to saints for intercession, a saint for every need. Confessing sins to a priest (instead of God). Paying big money for indulgences, to get loved ones out of Purgatory faster. The daily Eucharist, believing Christ dying once is not sufficient; the wine and bread are actually His physical blood and flesh. The Pope is holy and infallible and called 'father'. Catholicism is also "works" based. So on and so forth.

The dark ages: For centuries the ROMAN Catholic Church outlawed personal possession of the Word of God. In "mass" they would read chosen scripture to a congregation that didn't speak Latin. They interpreted scripture the way they wanted the "mass" to understand and believe, and not question. So on and so forth.  

[Your closest friendnt]

11 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

 

Even Peter disagrees with you, when He quotes Psalms 118

1 Peter 2:7

New King James Version

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who [a]are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

 

Jesus is the chief corner stone, not Peter

Peter never claimed that he is the chief cornerstone of the building of God.

Peter preached Jesus Christ and not himself, he was comission to be the first to preach the Gospel to the Jews. The first one to be saved or the first ones to be included in the church (in the body of Jesus Christ were those who believe in Jesus Christ from Peter's preaching. 

The others followed Peter preaching to the Jews only. 

At a later time Jesus Christ chose Peter according to his promise when he first recruited him and changed his name. 

And told him upon you I will build my church. 

We are talking about the church of Jesus Christ. 

Before the Cornelius mission the church of Jesus Christ did not include Gentiles.

And Jesus Christ choose Peter to bring to him the first Gentiles into his church.

(to be part of his body together with the Jew believers.)

The other disciples after that followed in to Peter's steps. 

Peter was chosen to be the first one..to be the foundation of Jesus Christ church. 

Not the foundation of Gods building who is Jesus Chris. Hope you can distinguish one from the other. 

In Revelation we are told that all the twelve disciples were the foundations of the church of Jesus Christ. 

But Jesus had chosen Peter to be the first. To show us that his church consists of anyone who believes in him from among the Jews or the Gentiles. 

That the only way to God for both Jews or Gentiles is through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 

[Your closest friendnt]

50 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Well said, and I also believe there are saved Christians in the Catholic religion. However; we have to introduce a couple of words and some history into the Catholic culture; idolatry and paganism. Which have filtered down in form through the centuries from the Babylonian system. To keep this brief, I'll omit supporting scripture.

What's the definition of a cult? I'm not Catholic bashing, if any of the following is in error, please correct me

Praying to Mary, venerating and believing she was sinless. Praying to saints for intercession, a saint for every need. Confessing sins to a priest (instead of God). Paying big money for indulgences, to get loved ones out of Purgatory faster. The daily Eucharist, believing Christ dying once is not sufficient; the wine and bread are actually His physical blood and flesh. The Pope is holy and infallible and called 'father'. Catholicism is also "works" based. So on and so forth.

The dark ages: For centuries the ROMAN Catholic Church outlawed personal possession of the Word of God. In "mass" they would read chosen scripture to a congregation that didn't speak Latin. They interpreted scripture the way they wanted the "mass" to understand and believe, and not question. So on and so forth.  

Don't you know the Christian history. 

That at the very beginning the Roman CC was Apostolic and eventually the Church was corrupted. 

New leadership of the church throughout the centuries have departed from how the church was at the beginning. 

And it was the first National church of the Roman Empire. The first Christian Nation. 

The Apostolic Bishops of the time were the advisors of the Roman Emperor. 

With their East  and West Roman Empires. 

Referring to the corrupted season of that stage of the church its call willful blindness and for a reason.

The Catholic church was not like that in it's baby steps for centuries and you have failed to recognize and point this out.

You have fail to see their faith in Jesus Christ. 

You see only the shaft and you refused to see the wheat. 

 

[Justin Adams]

5 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

That at the very beginning the Roman CC was Apostolic and eventually the Church was corrupted. 

Beginning? Try fourth century.

[Your closest friendnt]

15 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Beginning? Try fourth century.

That's what I wanted to empathize that at the time the prosecution of the Christians ended about the third to the forth century and with the need to formalize the Christian faith as the Religion of the Roman Empires.

Setting the Pagan religions on the side. Replacing the Emberors advisors with the Christian leaders of the time.

Making request and petitions to Jesus Christ instant of the pagan Gods.

That time the doctrine of the church it was not the same as it envolved later on.

Indroduce by corrupted leadership.  

This is the point I am making. 

It started good as it good be for an Empire of this size and later it was corrupted. They indroduce many things that they were not part of the church doctrine at first. 

Thank you for the comment. 

[Waggles]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hades is the place of punishment for the spirits of dead unbelievers.

Not true. Not taught in scripture.

Sheol (Hebrew) or Hades (Greek) is the underworld where all the dead (our souls) do go awaiting for the resurrection of Judgement.

Even the dead in Christ are in Hades waiting to be transformed in a twinkling of an eye and to rise up and forever be with our Lord and God.

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Beginning? Try fourth century.

Indeed. This was the origin of The Vatican and what most people call the Roman Catholic Church. I prefer sticking to "The Vatican" which refers to that city-state and their pope's seat of power, e.g. the so-called Holy See. There is nothing holy about idolatry and conduits of Babylonian corruption. 

This is doubtlessly tangential to the topic but worth bringing up: the Divine Council worldview changes everything. When my eyes opened for the first time on that day when Christ poured His Spirit upon me, the Lord started revealing the truth of His assembly to me. His Spirit sent me to the scriptures --- that is, the scriptures as they were known to the apostles in their day --- and I was rendered speechless for quite some time. 

There is a profound duality inherent in the words of His prophets for portions of the scriptures are "scenes" of the Lord presiding over His council. The Lord sent His prophets to bear witness and deliver His decrees as He saw fit. The prophets were not only speaking to flesh and blood but they were also addressing the spiritual princes condemned by the Most High. The earthly is a reflection of the spiritual, something which was lost in the centuries following the martyrdom of the apostles. 

Thus I came to understand that Babylon is at once an ancient empire of men... a symbol of the corruption of man by the fallen Watchers (those sons of God who left their first estate)... and a pattern of idolatry and the pursuit of strange gods which arose as a result of the corruption of man during the days of Enoch and Noah. Babylon is the mother of abominations. 

The Vatican is but one example out of many manifestations of wicked Babylon, whose influence encompasses the entire world. Why should we limit our view to the Catholic pope? Consider the Dalai Lama, whom some refer to as the "Asian pope," a man who many world leaders consult with. 

Catholicism and her daughters... the manifold sects of Buddhism... syncretic religions such as Baha'i... the warring sects of Islam... the Gnostics of old whom the apostle John warned the faithful to be wary of... 

All of this is Babylon. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Marathoner
typo... misspelled Dalai Lama, heh