Rapture questions

[The Light]

5 hours ago, WailingWall said:

If you dont believe what John 7 says

JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Maybe youll believe John 3

Please. The reason in John 7 that they cannot come where Jesus goes is because they do not believe that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah. 

John 14

⁶ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

We also see that there are many mansions in the fathers house which is in heaven. We see that Jesus goes to prepare a place that where He is we may be also.

John 14

 

² In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

As for John 3, that little word HATH tells the story. No man HATH ascended to heaven. However, when Jesus pays the price for sin with His perfect sacrifice, then we may go to heaven where He is.

 

[The Light]

5 hours ago, WailingWall said:

I understand why people need to believe in a rapture.

I don't think that you do. People need to believe in the rapture because it is the truth. That is the reason to believe.

1 Thes 4

¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

¹⁷ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

¹⁸ Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[The Light]

5 hours ago, WailingWall said:

 There afraid. Dont be afraid

JOHN 17 [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I PRAY NOT THAT THOU SHOULDEST TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, BUT THAT THOU SHOULDEST KEEP THEM FROM THE EVIL.

HE will keep you from the evil!

I'm not sure why you constantly take things out of context. Is it a lack of knowledge and understanding?

The context of this verse is that Jesus is talking about the Apostles. If they were taken out of the world, who would spread the Word? It was necessary that they stay in the world to spread the GOOD NEWS. God provided a Messiah and His name is Jesus. He is the savior and prophesied Messiah.

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:49 PM, WailingWall said:

On 2/24/2021 at 12:43 PM, WilliamL said:

This one is as clear as can be, in its context. Paul here is comparing the coming of Israel unto Mount Sinai with the End Times' coming of the Church to heavenly Mount Zion:

Hebrews 12:22 But you are come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,......

Are you saying Mount Zion and the heavenly Jerusalem are 2 different places?

Not at all. The heavenly city is on the heavenly mountain.

[WailingWall]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

Which heaven? The one with the throne of God.

Rev 7

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

¹⁵ Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Yeah, His throne is in heaven at this time

MATTHEW 25  [31 WHEN THE SON OF MAN SHALL COME in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY:

But when He returns to earth His Throne is coming with Him

JEREMIAH 3  [17] At that time THEY SHALL CALL JERUSALEM THE THRONE OF THE LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart. [18] In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

More proof 
 

[The Light]

17 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Yeah, His throne is in heaven at this time

 

Exactly. So what you contend, that we will not be raptured to heaven, is false and incorrect.

It can be proven what you are saying is wrong many ways and the only proof you present to support your false contention is scripture taken out of context.

Here is more proof that we are raptured to heaven as we are part of the army of God.

Rev 19

¹¹ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

¹² His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

¹³ And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

¹⁴ And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

[The Light]

17 hours ago, WailingWall said:

MATTHEW 25  [31 WHEN THE SON OF MAN SHALL COME in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY:

But when He returns to earth His Throne is coming with Him

JEREMIAH 3  [17] At that time THEY SHALL CALL JERUSALEM THE THRONE OF THE LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart. [18] In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

More proof 
 

The fact that His throne is coming with Him when He returns with His armies only proves what you are saying about the rapture is incorrect.

Here we can see the second rapture as the ones in heaven that go through the tribulation are singing the song of Moses. They are the twelve tribes across the earth and the 144,000 first fruits are a guarantee of this harvest. As we can see in Rev 14, the first fruits are before the throne of God in heaven as they are redeemed from the earth.

Rev 15

 1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

² And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

³ And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Rev 14

 

² And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

⁴ These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

⁵ And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

So your statement that there will not be rapture to heaven is proven false as we can see there are two raptures to heaven, the Church pretrib and the 12 tribes across the earth (not the nation of Israel) that are raptured pre wrath. The nation of Israel remains on earth through Gods wrath in a place of protection. None of Gods people are appointed to wrath.

[Justin Adams]

16 minutes ago, The Light said:

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

They WERE in heaven. But on the final day and during the cosmic battle this will span heaven and earth and be huge. It will be a battle for supremacy of the City of our God. Jerusalem, Mt. Zion is the prize. AND WE WILL WIN along with the Lord's heavenly Host of obedient Sons of God.

There are not two 'raptures'. There is ONE SECOND COMING.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Justin Adams

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

They WERE in heaven. But on the final day and during the cosmic battle this will span heaven and earth and be huge. It will be a battle for supremacy of the City of our God. Jerusalem, Mt. Zion is the prize. AND WE WILL WIN along with the Lord's heavenly Host of obedient Sons of God.

There are not two 'raptures'. There is ONE SECOND COMING.

There are two raptures as we can see the Church is already in heaven during the tribulation of Rev 12. The second rapture is the seed of the woman just before the wrath of God begins. There is also a second coming when Christ returns with His armies.

Edited March 1, 2021 by The Light

[Justin Adams]

14 minutes ago, The Light said:

There are two raptures as we can see the Church is already in heaven during the tribulation of Rev 12. The second rapture is the seed of the woman just before the wrath of God begins. There is also a second coming when Christ returns with His armies.

Pure conjecture and Darby stuff. All highly suspect. But if you like it, that is OK.