Believers and non believers; what's the difference?

[luigi]

10 minutes ago, Logostician said:

Many of the responses here have have hit the nail on the head.  The key is love.  It stirs my heart to see others who see this clearly.  I love you for loving.  Peace to you.

1 Jno 4:16

And we have KNOWN and BELIEVED the LOVE that God hath to us.  God is LOVE, and he who dwelleth in LOVE, dwelleth in God, and God in him.

To truly beleive in all it depth means to beleive not just with the mind but with the whole heart and soul as well.  Dwelling in love means living in love, and having love live in you.  These are the works James talks about in his epistle.  James is not talking about works of the law, He is talking about works of love that proceed from the inside out.  Indwelling love yields visible love toward our neighbors.

Jesus looks right into our hearts.  He knows if we truly beleive in him with complete trust and love.  He knows if we have truly given all of ourself to him, and are living in him, and he in us.

Rom 10:10

For with the HEART man BELIEVETH unto righteousness, and with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

Love precedes the wedding vow, and love makes the vow true.  We are the bride of Christ.

Very nice statements. It is a wonder to me why so many here are incapable of seeing what is clearly written. 

[Peterlag]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

Someone who believes IN Christ and is IN Christ, having the Spirit of Christ, does not believe in the hating of others. Those who attend hate rallies, though they may claim themselves believers in Christ, and saved, and in the Spirit of Christ, are in fact not believers IN Christ, but are believers IN Anti Christ, that which is opposite to Christ.

 

Yeah... we are not on the same page. I don't see what you see.

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Peterlag said:

 

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ.

 

The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

 

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real.

 

So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once a person is in Christ.

The old self is not totally obliterated.   The war BEGINS AND  we  have a new master.  

We ARE MOVING TOWARDS PERFECTION.  We don't 'arrive' because all of a sudden we have come to faith and been baptized.  IF THAT WERE INDEED TRUTH, NONE OF US WOULD EVER SIN AGAIN.  And if we say there is no sin in us we are liars.  It is a dangerous thing to think or tell someone that "Just do this" and you are good to go, cause that is not THE WHOLE TRUTH and can lead to deception. 

What does Paul tell us?  

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

a WAR HAS BEGUN

Romans 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

WAR, THE flesh is still there with us, and we must overcome. 
 

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me  (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
 

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That is an US DOING IT THING, not something done for us.  The Holy Spirit will lead and guide us, but it is us that bears the responsibility, it is us who is judged, it is us who does good works, it is us who are servants.  The Holy Spirit will NOT be standing before God to be judged but us and HOW we let the Holy Spirit work in us.  

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Don't think that the flesh and all its lusts and desires die, OUR SPIRITUAL BODY must KEEP CONTROL over our flesh one.  There is no 'instant change' you are no longer human.  

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

 

1Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1Corinthians 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

 

Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him:

Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over Him.

Romans 6:10 For in that He died, He died unto sin once: but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God.

Thoughts?

[Peterlag]

18 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

The old self is not totally obliterated.   The war BEGINS AND  we  have a new master.  

We ARE MOVING TOWARDS PERFECTION.  We don't 'arrive' because all of a sudden we have come to faith and been baptized.  IF THAT WERE INDEED TRUTH, NONE OF US WOULD EVER SIN AGAIN.  And if we say there is no sin in us we are liars.  It is a dangerous thing to think or tell someone that "Just do this" and you are good to go, cause that is not THE WHOLE TRUTH and can lead to deception. 

What does Paul tell us?  

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

a WAR HAS BEGUN

Romans 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

WAR, THE flesh is still there with us, and we must overcome. 
 

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me  (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
 

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That is an US DOING IT THING, not something done for us.  The Holy Spirit will lead and guide us, but it is us that bears the responsibility, it is us who is judged, it is us who does good works, it is us who are servants.  The Holy Spirit will NOT be standing before God to be judged but us and HOW we let the Holy Spirit work in us.  

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Don't think that the flesh and all its lusts and desires die, OUR SPIRITUAL BODY must KEEP CONTROL over our flesh one.  There is no 'instant change' you are no longer human.  

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

 

1Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1Corinthians 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

 

Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him:

Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over Him.

Romans 6:10 For in that He died, He died unto sin once: but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God.

Thoughts?

Is it not written...

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

I see the "sin nature" as something that existed before Jesus Christ destroyed it when the spirit of Christ came within the believer. This spirit is indeed a life form that is in all Christians and it seems to me one cannot understand and therefore function or be in the spirit if our old nature (which is dead) thinks in it's unrenewed mind that it suppose to be fighting against the new nature. Paul wrote in Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:" That's what I'm talking about. I now understand being in Christ is being in the spirit and neither of them (in Christ or in the spirit) has anything to do with the darn flesh. It now seems perfectly clear to walk in the spirit is the same as putting on the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Guest clancy]

12 hours ago, Peterlag said:

I did respond to this but you did not understand what I said. You asked a carnal question and I gave you a spiritual answer. I don't live my life thinking in terms of love or hate rallies. I walk in the spirit and the spirit of Christ does not hate.

 

I understand this answer, as I also walk in the Spirit,but, there is / was a fight going on in us, on a personal level,I remember that fight very well as a new babe, it was horrendous,Spirit verses the flesh, of course I believe the  Spirit shows/ leads us, also in our thinking, on how to overcome the flesh,...this is not a quick fix,...it’s ongoing ,the more we learn to submit to the Holy Spirit, life becomes easier, for me anyway,...as a new babe, your journey with the Lord has only just begun, He teaches you how to walk in the Spirit.

Every morning, hand your day over to Jesus and not “ self”........humble yourself before the Lord.

Edited February 18, 2021 by clancy

[Regenerated-Adult]

This seems to be about that old chestnut "sinless perfection".  Nowhere taught in the Bible.  Rather absurd on the face of it, a kind of lack of humility and realism.

[Peterlag]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:08 PM, Riverwalker said:

That is incorrect.  They tried "socialism" and it failed, as it has failed in every society from Pilgrims on

Leading Paul to write :

2 Thess 3:10For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.

Good Point. I never thought about that.

[Peterlag]

On 2/17/2021 at 7:55 AM, luigi said:

There was no political agenda a group of common 1st century individuals in the book of Acts were attempting to accomplish; they were just loving each other as themselves. The devil soon afterwards, initiated persecution of they who loved their neighbor as themselves, and scattered them out from Jerusalem (Acts 8:1).

I also believe you to be correct but I will bet you my car that this kind of love brought in a bunch of wrong thinking people really fast looking for a hand out.

[Peterlag]

23 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

Socialism is an economic system (like capitalism) not a political system

Holy Smokes I do believe you taught me something with this.

[Peterlag]

7 hours ago, clancy said:

I understand this answer, as I also walk in the Spirit,but, there is / was a fight going on in us, on a personal level,I remember that fight very well as a new babe, it was horrendous,Spirit verses the flesh, of course I believe the  Spirit shows/ leads us, also in our thinking, on how to overcome the flesh,...this is not a quick fix,...it’s ongoing ,the more we learn to submit to the Holy Spirit, life becomes easier, for me anyway,...as a new babe, your journey with the Lord has only just begun, He teaches you how to walk in the Spirit.

Every morning, hand your day over to Jesus and not “ self”........humble yourself before the Lord.

I did all of what you write above years ago. There's no more fighting with the old dead nature I was born in from Adam. I'm now in Christ.