HEBREWS 6:1-2

[Hopefully]

4 minutes ago, leah777 said:

It saddens me when some assert to a believer that they are not a true believer if they do not speak in tongues, discouraging such ones and casting doubts on their salvation,

“Love should be the goal of your life, but you should also want to have the gifts that come from the Spirit. And the gift you should want most is to be able to prophesy. I will explain why.

Those who have the gift of speaking in a different language are not speaking to people. They are speaking to God. No one understands them—they are speaking secret things through the Spirit. But those who prophesy are speaking to people. They help people grow stronger in faith, and they give encouragement and comfort.

Those who speak in a different language are helping only themselves. But those who prophesy are helping the whole church. I would like all of you to have the gift of speaking in different languages. But what I want more is for you to prophesy. Anyone who prophesies is more important than those who can only speak in different languages. However, if they can also interpret those languages, they are as important as the one who prophesies.

If they can interpret, then the church can be helped by what they say. Brothers and sisters, will it help you if I come to you speaking in different languages? No, it will help you only if I bring you a new truth or some knowledge, prophecy, or teaching. This is true even with lifeless things that make sounds—like a flute or a harp. If the different musical notes are not made clear, you can’t understand what song is being played. Each note must be played clearly for you to be able to understand the tune. And in a war, if the trumpet does not sound clearly, the soldiers will not know it is time to prepare for fighting.

It is the same with you. If you don’t speak clearly in a language people know, they cannot understand what you are saying. You will be talking to the air! It is true that there are many different languages in the world, and they all have meaning. But if I don’t understand the meaning of what someone is saying, it will just be strange sounds to me, and I will sound just as strange to them.

That’s why you who want spiritual gifts so much should prefer those gifts that help the church grow stronger. So those who have the gift of speaking in a different language should pray that they can also interpret what they say.

If I pray in a different language, my spirit is praying, but my mind does nothing. So what should I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. You might be praising God with your spirit. But someone there without understanding cannot say “Amen” to your prayer of thanks, because they don’t know what you are saying. You may be thanking God in a good way, but others are not helped.

I thank God that my gift of speaking in different kinds of languages is greater than any of yours. But in the church meetings I would rather speak five words that I understand than thousands of words in a different language. I would rather speak with my understanding, so that I can teach others.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14:1-19‬ ‭

[Guest clancy]

3 hours ago, leah777 said:

I would like to assure everyone that, although I have never spoken in tongues, I have the Holy Spirit acting in my life, leading me to scripture, hearing the voice of God through thoughts coming to me in prayer, and have exercised other Gifts as and when God has exercised them through me.

The Holy Spirit doesnt need us to speak in tongues to communicate with us.

 I agree,I haven’t spoken in tongues for at least 25 yrs...God speaks to me, like he does you, he leads me through scripture, he has also asked me to do things..through my mind....I have never doubted my faith Leah and I pray you never do, because of what some say,...God knows you are His, that is all that matters....

I agree ,I haven’t spoken in tongues for at least 25 yrs,..God speaks to me ,like he does you, he leads me through scripture ,he has also asked me to do things through my mind,I have never doubted my faith Leah and I pray you never do, because of what some say, God knows you are His and that is all that matters. In Jesus Name..Amen!

Edited March 14, 2021 by clancy

[leah777]

2 minutes ago, clancy said:

 

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[Guest clancy]

Sorry Leah, expand it....I must have typed, where I shouldn’t have, let me know, I will type it again.

[Guest clancy]

9 minutes ago, leah777 said:

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Just posted again, sorry for the confusion.

[leah777]

8 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Yes, the chapter in our Bible begins that way but that portion of the epistle's narrative does not begin at chapter 6. Remember: the chapter and verse markers are artificial, added long after the books of the Bible were written. 

One of the first things we want to do is to read the first and second verses of Hebrews 6 in their already-existing inherent context. That means not paying much attention to the chapter demarcations because the narrative in which those two verses occur does NOT begin with chapter 6. For the sake of space, I’ll keep it simple. Turn back one chapter and start reading from 5:7ff. There we will see the author of Hebrews is writing about Jesus and writing about Jesus as a high priest in the order of Melchizidek!!! This was advanced theology. We take it or granted because we have the Bible but for a first century Jew to read that would have been thought-stopping. That’s not Judaism 101. There is a priesthood higher than that of the Levitical order! 

And Jesus is it. 

Notice how Hebrews 6:1-2 begins. It begins with the word, “Therefore….” To what is the “therefore” referring? After telling his readers Jesus is a higher High Priest then they have ever known he tells them he has a lot to say about that but it is hard to explain because of the dullness, sluggishness, in hearing (a likely reference to Isaiah 6:9. In other words, this is a direct admonition of the author in correction of his readers. The Greek word (Gk.: “nōthroi”) means sluggishness or sloth, or remiss, thereby indicating some neglect on the part of his readers. That is the context of the authors words in verses 6:1-2. That is what the "therefore" is specifically. That is what is specified in the larger text. It is because of what he has said about Jesus and the sloth of the Hebrew converts who “by this time ought to be teachers,” that the author of Hebrews writes, “Therefore, having left the beginning teaching of the Christ, we should go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead work, and faith in God, instruction about baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.” (BLB, emphasis mine) 

The author wants them to "go on" from the items listed. Notice that with the exception of the resurrection all the concerns mentioned are rooted in Judaism and Judaic practice. Remember to whom the author is writing! These are Jewish converts, not former Gentiles. 

And also remember (as has also been established): the list of concerns mentioned is not likely to be exhaustive; it is only a sample of elementary or beginning concerns from which the readers must go on from toward maturity. We should, therefore, be cautious about adding things not stated because six items of many are mentioned. 

Also remember (as has already been evidenced): the matter is one of maturity or maturational fullness, not flawless perfection. 

 

 

So..... within the context of a bunch of slothful Jewish converts learning about the enormous significance of Christ as manifestation of and fulfillment of all the Law, the prophets, and the psalms - the whole of Tanakh - there is a pile of stuff to learn but it is not going to be learned or understood until the Jewish converts move on from the beginning or elementary aspects of Christ and his teachings. 

 

And then the author of Hebrews exemplifies his own admonition.... and he moves on toward much more demanding truth returning to the matter of Jesus as a High Priest in the Ord of Mel!  

 

 

Mel was both king and priest. Mel was the king of the city of peace (jeru = city; salem = peace). Mel was a priest of God. Abram had rescued those captured by the pagan kings and after doing so paid tribute to the kingly priest of the city of peace. 

 

 

 

 

(I'll add more as I have time, inclination, and response because the above is still only scratching the surface of the passage)

 

Thank you. I look forward to hearing more of this from you.

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, Frits said:

Hello DeighAnn,

And now to summarize, what do you think about the fact the Lord Jesus did use the language of the Holy Spirit, He did cast out demons and He did laid hands on sick people, and you don't?

 

Joh 14:12 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also

 

Are you clearly recognizable as a Christian if none of those signs follow you the Lord Jesus has mentioned, by that the believers will be recognizable?

 

Mar 16:17 KJV And these signs shall follow them that believe; IN MY NAME shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues

 

Please understand me well dear sister, this applies not only to you but also to me and to all Christians, including those on Worthy.

Connected in the love of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Some believe on faith.  
Some required a sign.

After much erasing it comes down to this,
If it were me, and I was REQUIRING a SIGN to SEE ones 'belief' , thereby NEGATING FAITH, I would study to find out how I could possibly believe that and what such a teaching would mean to those I taught.  I wonder HOW MANY souls have spoken gibberish in the house of the Lord to appease a mans interpretation of the WORD, to be accepted of men and how deeply wounded some ewes would be by this.  So we part ways in this matter.


 

1Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

1Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Corinthians 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

1Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1Corinthians 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

1Corinthians 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

1Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

1Corinthians 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

1Corinthians 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

1Corinthians 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

1Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

1Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

1Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

1Corinthians 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

1Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

1Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

1Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

1Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

1Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

1Corinthians 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

1Corinthians 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

1Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

1Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

1Corinthians 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

 

[Alive]

On 3/12/2021 at 3:23 PM, Frits said:

You write yourself:

"Hebrews 6:1-2 is about beginning teachings of Christ."

"No, Hebrews 6:1-2 is about leaving those things."

The comment is yours, but the first line was yours too!

I quoted you by copy / paste, so you are now discussing with yourself!
One big contradiction and not credible!
 

Here I have two more quotes from you, in response to my question about Hebr.6:1-2, whether you are submerged in water and lay hands on sick people:

"The gospel of Christ re
quires repentance from sin and faith in God but it doesn't require baptisms, laying on of hands".

"Blessedly, I can answer every single one of those questions in the affirmative."

And now you suddenly say that because of your faith you have allowed yourself to be immersed in water?
These two statements at the same time, that's not credible!

And now you say that
because of your faith you also lay hands on sick people, while you first said this is not a fundamental part of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus!
Again, these two statements at the same time, that's not credible!

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

It helps to read a member's posts carefully and without a bias or assuming one is saying something they may not be saying.

[Your closest friendnt]

20 hours ago, Josheb said:

Paul is certainly a possibility but that was not the position of the early Church. 

The position of the early church

 

 

 

Quote

 

Hebrews 2:3 states, “a commencement declared by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those having heard, God bearing witness with them both by signs and wonders.” If this is read to mean those who either heard Jesus in person, or had some special revelation from him then that would preclude Paul as the author.

 

Quote

Hebrews does not open with a statement of authorship, as do all of Paul’s epistles. Tertullian wrote of “an epistle to the Hebrews under the name of Barnabas.” Barnabas, as we know from Acts 4, was a Levite from Cyprus, so he would have had a full understanding of Judaism from priestly perspective. It was he who brought Paul to the apostolic council (Acts 9), indicating some preeminence of Barnabas over Paul(!). Martin Luther thought the book of Hebrews was written by Apollos due to his being an Alexandrian, “a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the scriptures,” (Acts 18:24). He would have had a knowledge f the Septuagint, which is reflected in the Greek manuscripts of Hebrews. But knowledge of the Septuagint would have also been true of Paul and Barnabas. No one knows who the author was but we can trust that which was written in the epistle is consistent with the whole of scripture and should be measure accordingly. 

Hebrews 2:3 — The Lexham English Bible (LEB)

3 how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation which had its beginning when it was spoken through the Lord and was confirmed to us by those who heard,

Hebrews 2:3 — New International Reader’s Version (NIrV)

3 Then how will we escape if we don’t pay attention to God’s great salvation?

The Lord first announced that salvation. Those who heard him gave us the message about it.

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 3/8/2021 at 11:34 AM, Frits said:

Although nowhere explicitly stated, I think Paul is the writer of the Hebrew letter.
His knowledge of the angelic world and his deep insight and explanation of the life and position of the Lord Jesus Christ above the angels, points to that. (C1,2)

Chapter 6 begins with the call, "Therefore.. let us go on unto perfection", after the foundation of Christ has been laid.

The writer then indicates which parts are found in the foundation according to the "doctrine of Christ":

1. Of repentance from dead works.

2. Of faith toward God.

3. Of the doctrine of baptisms.

4. Of laying on of hands.

5. Of resurrection of the dead.

6. Of eternal judgment.

Because the Foundation is divided into 6 subtopics here, I realize the great scope of this topic.

 

On 3/8/2021 at 11:34 AM, Frits said:

Nevertheless, I want to offer the possibility to say something about some of these 6 points in any order, because they belong inseparably together and together form our foundation Jesus Christ. (1Cor.3:11)

God bless you.

So it shall be, the OP wants to discuss those six points.

One point is the repentance of "dead works", it's asking us to repent from "dead works", each and every one of us has to figure out for our selves what we need to repent from.

We have to look in our "works".

If they can be within "dead works" we needed to repent from  it.

The writer goes on to say, that as a result of reaching maturity we can tell right from wrong. 

Perhaps that's what we need to do to look in our selves and discern if what we do is right or wrong.

The brighter is not asking how we justify what we do as right or wrong, I hope so. 

That's what usually most people some time do, they know what is done is not right but the excuse makes it right.

The tighter of Hebrews asks to discern between right and wrong without the justification or persuasion or by prejudicial persuasion, because of color, religion or greed or gender. 

 

That time they had their issues, but we are not them.

In our times we have ours that are relevant to us.

Hope that I stay in what the OP is asking. The discussion of one of the six points.

God bless