Futurism

[Charlie744]

3 minutes ago, leah777 said:

the language was never extinct. Groups of Jewish people were never extinct. 

No, it was extinct... there is a famous road named in Jerusalem for the man who brought back the Hebrew language (written and spoken)... 

But that is another discussion... Charlie 

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

No, it was extinct... there is a famous road named in Jerusalem for the man who brought back the Hebrew language (written and spoken)... 

But that is another discussion... Charlie 

 

6 minutes ago, leah777 said:

the language was never extinct. Groups of Jewish people were never extinct. 

Elizer Ben- Judah 

[leah777]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

No, it was extinct... there is a famous road named in Jerusalem for the man who brought back the Hebrew language (written and spoken)... 

But that is another discussion... Charlie 

He expanded the Hebrew language for everyday use. That is all.

[leah777]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

 

Elizer Ben- Judah 

I KNOW who he was. I am Jewish. It was always used in synagogues and Jewish seminaries.

Edited April 12, 2021 by leah777

[Marathoner]

I'm in agreement with @leah777 with regard to the tree. Not a future occurrence by any means but rather, something which occurred when Jesus Christ called forth His sheep from the nations (gentiles according to the Hebrew perspective). Romans 11 testifies of the truth:

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. (Romans 11:17-18 ESV) 

Sheep and goats... branches... figs... olives... vineyards... allegories which were meaningful and relevant to an ancient audience. Was the Lord's calling of gentiles a new thing under the sun? No, because we find references in the prophets to this very thing, how the Lord will call strangers (foreigners) to Zion... called "others." They will gather upon the mount of assembly and worship the Most High God. 

According to the ancient Hebrew perspective we are wild branches grafted to the Vine. But there is no Jew nor Greek in Jesus Christ, so we know that the parable was fulfilled after the Lord ascended to sit with our Father in heaven.  

It's good to remember that the Lord inspired the writing of scripture. It was not a paranormal event.  
 

[Marathoner]

43 minutes ago, leah777 said:

He expanded the Hebrew language for everyday use. That is all.

Indeed. A friend of mine and brother in the Lord is fluent in Hebrew, having spent years working with Israelis in various capacities, and like you is Jewish by birth. His knowledge and fluency with Hebrew was amplified by the time he spent with speakers of the language, so Hebrew never "died" as language by any means. 

By definition a language currently in use is not dead. As long as there are speakers of a language, it has not perished. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Marathoner

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Josheb said:

Not germane to the point being discussed. The point being discussed was the position scripture is read literally where possible. In the case of futurism that was being asserted by the individual who said he interpreted scripture literally where possible that appears to be untrue. Scripture was not read literally where possible. 

 

I can provide many verses and passages futurists claiming to rely on literal reading don't. This just happens to be two examples. 

Completely untrue but also not germane to the matter at hand . The claim was made to read scripture literally where possible but that proves not actually practiced. We'd be having a much different conversation were we reading literally what can be read literally. 

 

Nothing else is being discussed and I'm not collaborating with a change of topic until the facts in evidence are acknowledged.

Good luck! :)

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

 

What He said that we can heed is "take no thought for tomorrow".

IMO

And if that is where the Holy Spirit is leading you, who am I to say anything but 

Maybe that is great for all those who are not going to be one of the ones delivered up, but what about those who are?   DON'T they need to put on the whole armor to withstand the fiery darts for sure coming at them?   It says some will be delivered up. WHAT exactly do I need to know I ask? The same question every one of the elect should be asking but might not be because they are being told it is past. Shouldn't everyone be teaching that message and the answer to it?  Why is it those who are digging for the deeper treasures keep being brought back to beginning of the journey "Jesus saves"?  

WHAT if the Holy Spirit only teaches us everything BY and THROUGH the word of GOD?   What are the chances it won't be 'given' by some miraculous 'blast' of knowledge straight to the forehead,  but it is ONLY given to those who 'SEEK AFTER IT' through the physical study and seeking IN THE WORD?  If it turns out there will be no 'blast of info' coming, then where would one stand at that point who didn't do the seeking we are told to do?  Are you willing to risk that?  I am not.  

Do not be deceived by any man.  If in fact the Holy Spirit was just going to 'protect' His own no matter what,  WHY give any warning?  It's not like those who aren't Christians are reading it.  If wisdom and knowledge were just going to be given through the Holy Spirit WHY are we told to STUDY and to 'put it on'?  Wouldn't everyone who confessed God walked among us in the flesh and died for the sins of the world and was raised from the dead bringing about the gift of salvation,  ALL BELIEVE THE EXACT SAME THING?  I don't think there could even be a debate if that were truth.  

What does this say ?

1 Peter 5
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

(I WISH TO SET THE EXAMPLE FOR THOSE WHO WILL BE DELIVERED UP AND THAT TAKES THE WHOLE GOSPEL ARMOR)

4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

7 Casting all your care upon Him; for He careth for you.

(YES, CAST YOUR CARES UPON HIM BUT)

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

(FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING THE WORD OF GOD)


10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

11 To Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.



Have 'all the lies' have already been told?  And WHO is scared?  We have been given power over all our enemies.  BUT WHAT if someone doesn't know HOW to enact that power?  That person, should BE SCARED, cause that is a huge chink in the armor that, if missing,  leaves one powerless. 

WHY would anyone ever think it would be OK to not have on all the armor necessary?  BECAUSE THEY have been led to BELIEVE that it has already taken place.  It is no different than those who believe they will be 'raptured' away from any testing and trouble because being 'kept' becomes not something that comes from FAITH anymore but from action on Gods part and not suffering Gods Wrath doesn't come from BELIEF in the Lord, but by ESCAPE to a safe place.    

I myself am not scared because I am following what is written and I know to call on the promises of God, I know what I am to do and not to do.  I know when to speak and when to be dumb so that the Holy Spirit can do the talking.  I am not scared of the death of this flesh body especially if it is in the service of the Lord.  I believe this is what the bible teaches and so it is what I will pass on. 




The 'boogyman' may not exist, but the DEVIL sure enough does,  and will be making a big entrance and no matter when that is, WE, whatever WE generation is in play, needs to be ready.  So let's see.  We can't be sure it is past, even if we can believe it.  So let's say we all start teaching  'it is past' it being Dan 9.   Now no one is going to study end time prophesy because what would be the point into trying to make sense of  something those even closer to the time can't.  And sure enough they finally no one know nothing and here comes the Devil, EVERYONE WAS WRONG.  NOW that generation has no clue what to do.  AFTER ALL all this was supposed to have already happened.  NOw if we continue to teach it as in the future, no matter what, every generation is ready, every generation has a really good idea of  what it would have been like.  TO ME, it seems such a better way to help KEEP THE WORD ALIVE throughout all time.  Just saying...



And if that happens to come AFTER I have died, I need to make sure that whoever comes AFTER ME knows these things so that they will not be deceived.  I don't believe that because it's almost been two days that the Lord is being slack at all, as HIS Will is being done.  Doesn't matter how many generations it will take.  Same information needs to be taught.  Why else stay in the Word?  

When Christ returns ALL WILL BE CHANGED.  And since we are walking around 'UN changed', Christ has not returned.  There isn't anything anyone will ever be able to say to me that will ever sway me from that BELIEF.  I have studied this from every angle that has been put forth,  and I see how the 'alternative' can be put forth but that doesn't change the fact that they don't match with the 'SPIRIT' of the overall word of God. 

Since when Christ returns 'all are changed' that also means there is no way for Christ to return without ALL FLESH being changed.   No where is it written only 'some' will be changed. 



As for 'taking no thought for tomorrow',  WHAT are we to take NO THOUGHT for?

Matthew 6
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


Don't worry about the things of this FLESH world, 
but FIND God and his Kingdom and God and his Kingdom are found in his WORD.  


Don't let nothing in this world stop you from knowing the word of God, nothing in this world should stop your study in it because when you are seeking it, He will provide all that is needed.  Trust and faith in His promises.
 

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Josheb said:

Modern Israel's occurrence, its mere existence cannot happen apart from God's will and purpose but that does not dictate prophesy fulfilled

Just a comment on this part
IF
God told them that if they obeyed they would be blessed and if they didn't they would lose their land and be scattered for 2520 years, and then they didn't and so they ended up losing their land and going into captivity and didn't become a nation again until those years had come to pass?  Let's say that as with the tribe of Judah that there were nations of the world come into existence exactly the same amount of time from when they were first taken captive, would that also be prophecy fulfilled even if it wasn't in the original land?  (maybe even fall under a land not known but would be protected by God)

7 hours ago, David1701 said:

When did the end times start, according to the Bible?

Expressions like "the world" are generalisations; even nowadays, they almost never mean "every single person in the world", much less in NT times.

The great apostasy is an apostasy from the faith, which means not believing the essentials.  The elect cannot be thus deceived, according to the Bible.

The office of "Pope" is worshipped by millions, partly due to all the false miracles claimed by Romanism (he does not have to perform them himself).  He claims to have the authority of Christ on Earth and sits in the temple of God (i.e. the professing Church) issuing decrees, as if he were God.  One of his blasphemous titles is "Vicar of Christ", which means "Instead of Christ", which means "Antichrist".  Another blasphemous title is "Holy Father", when only God is our Holy Father.

In prophetic language, a "beast" is a kingdom (or its ruler, as representing that kingdom).  The "Pope" rules over the Vatican, which kingdom has ambassadors in nearly every country in the world, influencing world leaders.

If only the whole world, meaning all religions, looked to him as 'the one', then we would have something going on.  Then we could believe the pope was fulfilling that prophecy.  But since it is only one religion, it doesn't fit. 

[Retrobyter]

20 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

There is precious little about the first advent for a very good reason. "Had they but known, they never would have killed the Lord of Glory".

So it will be cryptic for the second advent and meanwhile the futurists distract us from proclaiming the gospel and invent rapture stuff and all kinds of ideas to ignore the Kingdom and have us worrying about an unclear future. Read the Geneva commentaries and not the Darby ones or Scofield.

Shalom, Justin Adams.

IF you consider over 400 prophecies fulfilled IN the first advent "a precious little." By that time period, very few were truly expecting the Messiah to come, and it still took many by surprise. The Levites, chief priests, and P'rushiym (Pharisees), along with the Ts'duqiym (Sadducees), had their own political system in place that worked quite well within the occupation of Rome. They didn't need or want some "Messiah" coming along, upsetting the applecart!

(Political alert.)

It's very much like our political system today, where each member of Congress on average gets paid around $200,000 a year + other incentives and no term limits! So, when someone as unorthodox as a Trump comes along, who dances to the beat of his own drum, doesn't need a salary, doesn't consider it important to be "politically correct," and doesn't answer to the lobbyists, they tend to hate him and generate hatred toward anyone who does like him!

That was true for the Messiah Yeshua`, as well. When He came on the scene, He was in their faces, calling them a brood of vipers, overturning their money tables in the Temple, and denouncing their self-exalting ways to all the people (when and if He talked about them at all)!

I don't know how many prophecies are left unanswered and unfulfilled, but there are probably just as many as there were for His First Advent. These will be fulfilled at His SECOND Advent. It's important to understand that the Jews understood that there were TWO sets of prophecy about the Messiah, making some Rabbis think there would be two Messiahs: They called them prophecies about "Mashiyach ben Yosef" ("Messiah son of Joseph," the suffering and dying Messiah, referring to the suffering Joseph, who was imprisoned in Egypt and died in Egypt without returning to the Land) and prophecies about "Mashiyach ben David" ("Messiah son of David," referring to King David, as a victorious and reigning Messiah). Because they wanted the victorious and reigning Messiah right away, Yeshua` didn't fit the bill! That's not what He came for! At first, He came as the "Lamb of God," haKeves Elohiym (which means "the yearling of God", a lamb just getting to adulthood); when He comes again, He will come as "ha'Aryeh Yhudah," "the Lion of Judah" and will fulfill the second half of those prophecies.

As far as "distract [you] from proclaiming the gospel," that depends on which "gospel" you're proclaiming! The "gospel" Yeshua` heralded was the gospel of the KINGDOM, and that's NOT talking about the "church" as God's Kingdom, either!

I'll keep repeating it until it sinks in:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel [Gabriel] said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

That's NOT some throne in a so-called "Heaven," either! David never had a throne in "Heaven!" Indeed, THERE IS NO "HEAVEN!" (Unless you're talking about the New Jerusalem which is said to be "Ierousaleem epouranioo," translated as "heavenly Jerusalem" and meaning "Jerusalem from-above-the-sky." (Hebrews 12:22.)

We don't go to "Heaven" when we die; we go to "sleep" until we are awakened in the Resurrection at Yeshua`s return, and then He BEGINS His reign on this earth from Jerusalem! His Kingdom starts out small, like a grain of mustard seed, having no more influence in the world than yeast in a lump of dough when it is first mixed into the dough. But, in time, it will grow until it is a tree that provides shelter for birds to nest and will have a significant amount of influence, like a bushel of dough risen with yeast, enough to make several loaves of bread! It will grow like a stone cut out of the mountain until fills the earth! He will subdue His enemies until all are conquered or destroyed. And, the LAST enemy that He will destroy is DEATH ITSELF!

AFTER He has reigned for a thousand years, then He will raise the rest of the dead and they will appear before the Great White Throne for judgment. After the judgment, comes the SENTENCING! Then, comes the Fire and like the global Flood of water before it, the Fire will also burn off the works of mankind, preparing it for a new Creation! That is when the Son turns over the world empire to the Father, and He reigns over all as He creates a New Earth with its New Sky! Yeshua` will continue to reign over Israel, submitting to His Father. And, upon this New Earth will land the New Jerusalem, as promised in Revelation 21:1-2. It is only THEN that God shall wipe away all tears! God shall finally dwell with men and be their God.

If one doesn't have all that in his or her understanding of the End Times, then he or she is SEVERELY missing a few things in the Scriptures!