Futurism

[Guest kingdombrat]

My only bone in this debate is that I absolutely believe Gabriel is telling Daniel in Chapter 9 about the Coming Messiah, what the Messiah will accomplish [after all, When Gabriel shows up, Daniel is confessing his sins and the sins of Israel unto God///////so this is a bit of God answering Daniel concerning how the sins of both Daniel and Israel will be redeemed].

 

But where I disagree and not really accept the Jesuit views but more on my own since I am using the literal Hebrew here.   Is when Gabriel tells Daniel but then the Messiah will be [CUT OFF AND NO MORE].   Because then someone else is being introduced here in and Gabriel claims this someone else will be the one making the contract/pact/deal for ONE WEEK (7 years).

 

I just cannot buy this someone else, after the Messiah is shown to be CUT OFF, is still the Messiah.   In the Hebrew, there is proof Gabriel speaks of 2 people here.   I do not see the Messiah is representing both the Salvation and the Destruction sides simultaneously.   That would make Yeshua [DOUBLE MINDED] which is UNSTABLE in all His ways.   and I definitely do not buy that at all!

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, SONshine said:

Sorry Justin.  I get a little bit carried away sometimes, especially when I think the inerrant Word of God is being attacked.  Please forgive me. 

SONshine, I suggest you immediately lie prostrate on the ground and say 153 Hail Mary's, 666 holy rosary beads, pray to all the dead people sitting in or around the camp fire in purgatory...... You just don't know when one of those crispy folks will be allowed out of purgatory and I am sure he or she will put a good word in for you..... 

Just my thoughts, Charlie

PS. Please refrain from criticizing Justin... I have it on good authority he has some very good friends that are awaiting their pardon from purgatory.... you do not want them saying bad things about you to the Big Guy.... 

[Justin Adams]

36 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

It is a real head scratcher in mt viewpoint.   Not that I am opposed to the Baptismal Formula one bit, but if that Formula is a [ODD ON] and not actually Commanded by Christ, how can it be considered the Inspired Word of God?

As I said, inspriration is a process. If a mistake is made (ie flat or domed earth) God obviously does not care, so neither do I. He will providentially send someone along to fix it so we do not have to worry. Also, we should not WORSHIP our scriptures either.

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, kingdombrat said:

My only bone in this debate is that I absolutely believe Gabriel is telling Daniel in Chapter 9 about the Coming Messiah, what the Messiah will accomplish [after all, When Gabriel shows up, Daniel is confessing his sins and the sins of Israel unto God///////so this is a bit of God answering Daniel concerning how the sins of both Daniel and Israel will be redeemed].

 

But where I disagree and not really accept the Jesuit views but more on my own since I am using the literal Hebrew here.   Is when Gabriel tells Daniel but then the Messiah will be [CUT OFF AND NO MORE].   Because then someone else is being introduced here in and Gabriel claims this someone else will be the one making the contract/pact/deal for ONE WEEK (7 years).

 

I just cannot buy this someone else, after the Messiah is shown to be CUT OFF, is still the Messiah.   In the Hebrew, there is proof Gabriel speaks of 2 people here.   I do not see the Messiah is representing both the Salvation and the Destruction sides simultaneously.   That would make Yeshua [DOUBLE MINDED] which is UNSTABLE in all His ways.   and I definitely do not buy that at all!

You are going to have to forgive me here kingdombrat.... I am having a little difficulty understanding your comment --- it is definitely on me... 

Anyway, the Messiah is the One to be "cut off" (crucified)... He is the One who will "CONFIRM" the covenant --- meaning it has already been promised to the Jews in earlier times - God told Abraham He will provide the sacrificial lamb and spare Isaac... and this is the covenant Jeremiah 31 prophesied about before the Messiah arrived... This is the covenant fulfilled by Jesus DURING THE LAST 7 YEARS OF DANIELS 70 WEEK PROPHECY.... IT ALL FITS TOGETHER AND IS FULFILLED.

One more thing... if you were to look up Daniel 9:27 I am sure you will also find some scholars have unpacked those verses in a "chiastic" structure and may help one see those verses are indeed speaking about the same ONE.

Just my thoughts, Charlie

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

1 minute ago, Justin Adams said:

As I said, inspriration is a process. If a mistake is made (ie flat or domed earth) God obviously does not care, so neither do I. He will providentially send someone along to fix it so we do not have to worry. Also, we should not WORSHIP our scriptures either.

I look at it this way.  We know there is the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.   If we use these in Baptism it really is not making a difference here.

 

Just like if we Baptize like we see 4 times in the Book of Acts in Yeshua's Name.

 

I don't see God saying there's 2 Baptisms?   One of them is going to hell.   After all, to be Baptized either way first requires a person to Accept Christ in order to come to the Father!

 

But I do like to say, if Jesus did Command a Baptismal Formula, His Own Disciples disobeyed Him because they are Baptized and Baptizing others in Yeshua Name only!

 

This is why I say, God knows and is not saying you got Baptized wrong.   That is man saying that, NOT GOD!

[Justin Adams]

Sadly, due to the misappropriation of the word 'inspiration' etc., some believers are so fearful of reading the other books of the LXX that the reformers left out. This because of wrong teaching. The scriptures are ALL there for our help and encouragement and inspiration. We should NOT worship a particular rendition of scripture. They are not exhaustive repositories of information and encompass all that happened from the year dot until now. They are our guide and as such should be treated with respect and studied. If there are disparities, then we have the Holy Spirit to guide us yet further. Always, as the Bereans, we should study hard to see if we have gotten the correct understanding. Do not be afraid of your bible. It is there for you to use and study with all the tools we now have at our disposal.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Guest kingdombrat]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

You are going to have to forgive me here kingdombrat.... I am having a little difficulty understanding your comment --- it is definitely on me... 

Anyway, the Messiah is the One to be "cut off" (crucified)... He is the One who will "CONFIRM" the covenant --- meaning it has already been promised to the Jews in earlier times - God told Abraham He will provide the sacrificial lamb and spare Isaac... and this is the covenant Jeremiah 31 prophesied about before the Messiah arrived... This is the covenant fulfilled by Jesus DURING THE LAST 7 YEARS OF DANIELS 70 WEEK PROPHECY.... IT ALL FITS TOGETHER AND IS FULFILLED.

One more thing... if you were to look up Daniel 9:27 I am sure you will also find some scholars have unpacked those verses in a "chiastic" structure and may help one see those verses are indeed speaking about the same ONE.

Just my thoughts, Charlie

 

And I completely see your viewpoint.   I am saying IN THE HEBREW, not the English bible you are using there is 2 people Gabriel speaks about.

[Charlie744]

Just now, kingdombrat said:

And I completely see your viewpoint.   I am saying IN THE HEBREW, not the English bible you are using there is 2 people Gabriel speaks about.

I did not know that so please help me with  this.... will you give us some of this to think about? 

Charlie

[Guest kingdombrat]

Just now, Charlie744 said:

I did not know that so please help me with  this.... will you give us some of this to think about? 

Charlie

You thought about it yesterday.

 

1) Messiah

2) the Dumb One

[Guest kingdombrat]

27And he will strengthen a covenant for the princes for one week, and half the week he will abolish sacrifice and meal- offering, and on high, among abominations, will be the dumb one, and until destruction and extermination befall the dumb one.

כזוְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָֽרַבִּ֖ים שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד וַֽחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ יַשְׁבִּ֣ית | זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֚ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שׁוֹמֵֽם: