Futurism

[Marathoner]

18 minutes ago, Alive said:

Most important is where we place our trust. Jesus told us some real important foundational truths regarding our Salvation. He said the Father draws those that are chosen and given to be 'In Christ' and He said that He would lose none of them.

We know that we have Life and that Life is Christ. We know that we have the Holy Spirit--indeed God Himself--dwelling in us. We are told that He is the 'Paraclete'--the Helper, teacher and one who walks along side.

Its important that we learn to listen to Him who dwells within us and to trust the awesome power of that Life. I would challenge each believer to spend time--a lot of time determining what it is that you REALLY KNOW in your spirit-mind-heart and how you came to know those things. If you go through this exercise--and it will take time--a year or more to fully apprehend what the Lord has actually imprinted on you--I suggest that you will end up with a very precious small number of things that are 'salvitically' vital. This will simplify your experience of your Lord and your brethren.

It will also help you to gain a new perspective on the rest as you continue your study. This perspective may and I hope it does--allow you to take down any 'high towers' that have been erected.

The Gospel is so simple a child can understand it. We died and yet we live and that Life is Christ. The Cross, the Resurrection and the Ascension. Real space time historical events that you were included in. Lay hold of it. Ask the Lord for the kind of clarity that only He gives. All the rest will be easy.

Brethren--He is waiting and more willing than any of us can grasp--to open eyes.

Read again the links in my signature.

Eschatology is more a distraction than anything else. We will know, when we know and that is squarely in the Lord's hand. Indeed. In the Father's.

Yes, our relationship with the Lord is what matters. Thank you for this timely reminder, my brother. 

To continue my previous post in a manner more relevant to the topic at hand, I confess that the various teachings and doctrines revolving around "end times" are foreign to my admittedly insular perspective. It is good for us to recognize our own shortcomings and confess them readily; I wasn't taught in Sunday school nor was the Lord even mentioned under my parents' roof. My concept of God was vague... I knew He is there but that's it. 

The Spirit of the Lord shattered my conception of God in an instant when He came to me out of the blue. What does this say? The Almighty doesn't need man nor anything else to speak for Him --- He speaks for Himself. As the scriptures tell us, God is not an idol of wood or stone incapable of speech; He is not served by human hands in structures raised by human hands. This is originally found in the Law and Prophets, no less. 

Raptures? Events which could not be understood by the original audience of the scriptures when they were written? Technology which the ancient could not conceive of? Such things were not taught by the apostles nor those they discipled like Polycarp of Smyrna. Polycarp, a student of John, vouches for the apostle Paul in his letter to the Corinthians penned after Paul was martyred. Polycarp encouraged the Corinthians to hold fast to everything Paul gave to them in his letters and during the time he spent with them, and to be encouraged because their beloved apostle was with the Lord in fullness. 

But nothing about RFID or other related technology. Those, I assert, are inventions of man. 

[Your closest friendnt]

25 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Afternoon, What do you think of this?


 Daniel 9:24 

IS THIS part of what is being referenced by Daniel ?   The Lord coming as Saviour to fulfill/complete the Messianic work of God?

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

which covers 

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,


just as this covers HIS RETURN

and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Isaiah 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.


 

MESSIAH coming  AS SAVIOUR

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself




Have you considered this as being the 1st half of the 70th?
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week 

 And this, as being when Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven for the 2nd 1/2?

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,

And Upon the arrival of Christ on day of vengeance?
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Rev)



Also, going back to find the 'date' of the beginning of the 70,

Have you settled yet on which one you believe to be the 'decree' to rebuild Jerusalem?  Just making sure I am not trying to fit anything to 'my' time line.  But this one still fits like a puzzle piece to me.   


Nehemiah 2:1 And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king.....

Nehemiah 2:6 And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,) For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.  7 Moreover I said unto the king, If it please the king, let letters be given me to the governors beyond the river, that they may convey me over till I come into Judah;  8 And a letter unto Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the palace which appertained to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into. And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me.


Just want to stop and THANK YOU for this deeper look into Gods Word,  searching for HIS TRUTH, and I can see what you are seeing.  Christ fulfilled the work of Saviour.  His return therefore will NOT be in that capacity, and His return will be as Lord of lords and King of kings.    This actually smooths out some wrinkles for me.  

But, that is only up until 1/2 way through verse 26.  


Another witness 

Christ coming as Saviour

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Christ return as Lord of Lord and King of Kings

Zechariah 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

Thoughts?  

Jesus said when I will come back will I find any faith?

He knew that when he will return that he will not find any faith and he put it in a question. 

When I will return will I find faith? 

Jesus Christ was right he did not find any faith. 

Jesus has come back, he said he will be back and he came back.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Afternoon, What do you think of this?

Before I comment I would like to say that I might be a little confused here but that is not unusual... so if I do not address what you are saying here, please ask again...

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 Daniel 9:24 

IS THIS part of what is being referenced by Daniel ?   The Lord coming as Saviour to fulfill/complete the Messianic work of God?

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

If I am not mistaken, this refers to Isaiah 61 where God reads these verses on the Sabbath and stops reading .... proclaiming these Scriptures speak about HIM... and He is openly claiming so to the audience of Jews in attendance.

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

which covers 

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,


just as this covers HIS RETURN

and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Isaiah 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

 

Not sure here.... I would ask others in this topic to offer their thoughts on these verses....

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

MESSIAH coming  AS SAVIOUR

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Yes, these are the complete fulfillments within Daniel's 70 weeks. Within those 70 weeks (490 years), there will be a complete RESTORATION from Babylon for His people, His city, His land, His Temple and most importantly, to restore the Righteousness / Holiness within the Holy of Holies.... In other words, the ARK that was hidden by Jeremiah would not be found and placed in this 2nd Temple... but the coming Messiah WOULD be the restoration of the ARK....

Every physical piece or thing needed to restore Jerusalem, their people, etc., would indeed be completed within the first 69 weeks of Daniel.. The most important piece or thing (bad selection of words) which would / must be restored would be the ARK ... but the Messiah would be this HOLY ONE to replace the presence of God in the Temple. The 6 requirements in 9:27 speak ONLY to the last week in Daniel.  None of these were or could be fulfilled during the first 69 weeks.. God specifically carved the 70 weeks into 3 separate periods to ensure we realized what was to be restored during each of those periods and drawing SPECIAL attention to the last week of Daniel when EVERYTHING ABOUT THE COMING MESSIAH AND HIS MISSION ARE REVEALED.

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself
 

DeighAnn, this is what I was mentioning to you in my PM last week.... the restoration of the people. the city, the buildings, the Temple would ALL be restored within the first 69 weeks..... leading us to what is to come within Daniel's last week.... it would be so different than the physical things restored .... This final week of Daniel would bring in the Messiah exactly on the first day of the 70th week.... and He would have a 3.5 year ministry BUT HE WOULD INDEED FULFILL ALL 6 OF HIS REQUIREMENTS MENTIONED IN 9:27...

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Have you considered this as being the 1st half of the 70th?
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

This "prince of the people" refers to Titus, the Roman general who would be used by God as HIS agent to punish the Jews for their rejection of their Messiah. This ULTIMATE punishment would or is the "desolation"... the desolation of everything Jewish - their land, their city, their Temple, their buildings, and of course they themselves would be murdered in the millions and the  rest would be dispersed outside of Israel... complete annihilation.  There rejection of their Messiah and His crucifixion is the "abomination" - the most horrific act or event that would or could ever occur on this earth... can not be equaled....  this "abomination" indeed will and did CAUSE God to "desolate" everything Jewish.

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week 

 And this, as being when Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven for the 2nd 1/2?

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,

 

I do not see that at all in these verses... Daniel 9:27 and those before it from 9:24 to 9:27 all present one theme or picture for us to see.... They ALL speak of the coming Messiah, His crucifixion, His fulfillments in the last week of Daniel and during HIS ministry..... This is all speaking about Jesus and the consequences of the Jews in rejecting Him.

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

And Upon the arrival of Christ on day of vengeance?
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Rev)
 

If this comes from Revelation... I can not comment on this...... not there yet.

 

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Also, going back to find the 'date' of the beginning of the 70,

Have you settled yet on which one you believe to be the 'decree' to rebuild Jerusalem?  Just making sure I am not trying to fit anything to 'my' time line.  But this one still fits like a puzzle piece to me.   

DeighAnn, I have already responded to you on that.... I can not remember the page it is on but it is most likely no more than 5 pages back.... let me know if you do not find it or have an issue with it.... 

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Nehemiah 2:1 And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king.....

Nehemiah 2:6 And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,) For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.  7 Moreover I said unto the king, If it please the king, let letters be given me to the governors beyond the river, that they may convey me over till I come into Judah;  8 And a letter unto Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the palace which appertained to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into. And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me.

I will ask others in this forum to offer their understanding on these verses, but I think they may speak of the issues / problems the Jews would have to endure and deal with when they were allowed to return to Jerusalem and begin to rebuilt the city, the buildings, etc.  I think they were opposed by many / those that remained or still lived in Jerusalem while Daniel was in Babylon.... 

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Just want to stop and THANK YOU for this deeper look into Gods Word,  searching for HIS TRUTH, and I can see what you are seeing.  Christ fulfilled the work of Saviour.  His return therefore will NOT be in that capacity, and His return will be as Lord of lords and King of kings.    This actually smooths out some wrinkles for me.  

But, that is only up until 1/2 way through verse 26.  

I would ask you to think about Daniel's last week or the final 7 years of the 490 years in a very different manner than what is offered out there ... whether by the RCC or the interpretations of those outside the RCC.....

In Daniel 9:24 we are told WHAT THE MESSIAH WOULD DO AND THAT HE WOULD INDEED COME IN THIS FINAL WEEK (ANOINT THE MOST HOLY). So, these 6 requirements MUST BE COMPLETED OR FULFILLED BY HIM WITHIN THIS LAST WEEK OF DANIEL. 

Now, BEFORE anyone would comment that these 6 things have NOT IN FACT BEEN FULFILLED, ONE MIGHT CONSIDER INTERPRETING / LOOKING AT THESE FROM GOD'S POINT OF VIEW AND NOT AT MAN'S LEVEL... The Jews expected the coming Messiah to address the Romans  - perhaps by physically warring with them and destroying them... If we interpret these 6 requirements along those same lines, one will argue they have not been fulfilled - we still have sin, there is no peace in the world, where is this "everlasting righteousness"?....  God did not eliminate all sin in the WORLD, but He did or will eliminate all sin WITHIN US (each of us), IF WE BELIEVE HE DIED FOR OUR SINS AND BELIEVE IN HIM.... Jesus did NOT bring peace to the WORLD, but He did bring peace to ALL WHO BELIEVE IN HIM ... that peace should, like the other requirements, not be viewed from a WORLDLY view but from a PERSONAL OR INDIVIDUAL VIEWPOINT... HE HAS INDEED FULFILLED EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE 6 - WITHIN EACH OF US (SHOULD WE ACCEPT HIM).  Clearly, those that interpret these 6 are more than able to argue they have NOT be fulfilled - but that is from a non- Messianic  / worldly view of things... to them, the WORLD is no different, no better, no less wars, no peace... so on.... 

So, what does this have to do with the many misinterpretations and wrongfully preoccupied attention on the 7 years --- or more specifically the remaining 1/2 of the 7 years (last week of Daniel's 70 weeks)?

Every one of the 6 fulfillments WERE INDEED FULFILLED AND COMPLETED BY THE MESSIAH WITHIN THE FIRST 3.5 YEARS OF THE LAST WEEK. During this 3.5 year ministry the Messiah would be on this earth for 4 of the 7 possible Passover Feasts, with of course, the last one where He was crucified. 

To Me (and once again, everyone must be comfortable with their own interpretations),  these 4 reflect the first 4 Jewish feasts of the 7... He was crucified before He could attend the remaining 3 (during the 7 year period) and this too is / was purposeful.... these last 3 reflect the events that will come at His second coming... He completed the first 4 festival events and He will come and complete the last 3 at the time of the end.

Although Jesus was crucified before the 7 Passovers, this did not prevent Him from fulfilling all 6 requirements in 9:24..... He indeed fulfilled all of them... and FOR ME, He was kind enough to tell US while on the cross:

   a) forgive them for they know not what they have done --- Jesus came to the earth to bring in those 6 requirements both spiritually AND physically, but of course we crucified Him... the physical restoration of man will now have to wait... 'they do not know what they are doing", HOWEVER, Jesus STILL STARTED THAT STATEMENT TO GOD BY SAYING, "FORGIVE THEM"..... THIS IS WHAT HE CAME TO EARTH .. TO ADDRESS OUR SINS... BUT DESPITE OUR KILLING HIM, HE STILL ASKED GOD TO FORGIVE US...

  b) the second thought I might mention is also when He was on the cross... Jesus told US before He died, "it is finished".... TO ME, He is telling us that although we "cut him off" in the "midst of the week", He HAD STILL FULFILLED HIS MISSION and FINISHED THE THINGS HE CAME TO COMPLETE.

Meaning, many have grossly thrown this remaining 3.5 years of His ministry out some 2,000 years and tied it to some mythical AC figure ..... ridiculous....

Bottom line, Jesus fulfilled everything He came to the earth to do within His 3.5 years on earth... nothing SHOULD ever be conceived or created by us that would allow us to think there is more to do ... or things still have to be fulfilled BECAUSE there is a calendar 3.5 years of the 7 remaining.....  He FINISHED everything in 3.5 years of the last week... WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT ALLOWING HIM TO STAY THE FULL 7 YEARS.... BUT HE ENSURED US HE HAD FULFILLED THE 6 BEFORE HE WAS CRUCIFIED.  FORGET ABOUT THIS REMAINING 3.5 YEARS.... DONE AND GONE

Just my thoughts, Charlie

 

 

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

Another witness 

Christ coming as Saviour

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Christ return as Lord of Lord and King of Kings

Zechariah 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

Thoughts?  

 

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

If I am not mistaken, this refers to Isaiah 61 where God reads these verses on the Sabbath and stops reading .... proclaiming these Scriptures speak about HIM... and He is openly claiming so to the audience of Jews in attendance.

Correct, and the reason He stopped in the middle of the verse was because He was there fulfilling the first half,

'the day of vengeance' that followed, speaking to the 2nd Advent.  

[DeighAnn]

20 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

DeighAnn, this is what I was mentioning to you in my PM last week.... the restoration of the people. the city, the buildings, the Temple would ALL be restored within the first 69 weeks..... leading us to what is to come within Daniel's last week.... it would be so different than the physical things restored .... This final week of Daniel would bring in the Messiah exactly on the first day of the 70th week.... and He would have a 3.5 year ministry BUT HE WOULD INDEED FULFILL ALL 6 OF HIS REQUIREMENTS MENTIONED IN 9:27...

OK, this is where we are seeing different. Got it.  For me the Messiah is cut off DURNING the 69th, you see it as the 70th.  That is where I will start anew.  

[Charlie744]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Correct, and the reason He stopped in the middle of the verse was because He was there fulfilling the first half,

'the day of vengeance' that followed, speaking to the 2nd Advent.  

Oh I see what you are saying... Yes, His first coming  would indeed fulfill those 6 requirements identified in 9:24... and the first 4 of the 7 Jewish feasts.

At His second coming He will indeed come as a KING and not the SUFFERING SERVANT and complete the remaining 3 Jewish feasts.

Charlie

[Charlie744]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

OK, this is where we are seeing different. Got it.  For me the Messiah is cut off DURNING the 69th, you see it as the 70th.  That is where I will start anew.  

Please let me know IF you find the earlier  response where you asked for the specific dates which determined the start date of the 70 weeks and proving the Messiah would indeed arrive on the first day of the 70th week.

Charlie

[DeighAnn]

23 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

This "prince of the people" refers to Titus, the Roman general who would be used by God as HIS agent to punish the Jews for their rejection of their Messiah. This ULTIMATE punishment would or is the "desolation"... the desolation of everything Jewish - their land, their city, their Temple, their buildings, and of course they themselves would be murdered in the millions and the  rest would be dispersed outside of Israel... complete annihilation.  There rejection of their Messiah and His crucifixion is the "abomination" - the most horrific act or event that would or could ever occur on this earth... can not be equaled....  this "abomination" indeed will and did CAUSE God to "desolate" everything Jewish.

But this took place like 40 years later, right?  And at this time Israel didn't 'own' the land, it wasn't their city, wasn't their nation.  Sure, they had gone back to Jerusalem but it was 'owned' by the Romans,  as they were still under the banishment of  Leviticus 26. They would not be a nation again until after 1900.  SO you can see how I put this as a future, nation city and all only coming into being way after.  

And the Lord never made mention of Daniel when He was telling of the 'Titus' time destruction that would fall on that generation.  

I believe that this part of Luke is the Lord speaking to that day, the destruction of the temple

Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Luke 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Luke 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

Luke 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Luke 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

Luke 21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

You will HAVE to forgive me for my persistence BUT it is DRIVING me crazy to hear Satan being called the Lord AND IT WOULD DRIVE ME MORE CRAZY if I had been calling the Lord, BY the name of Satan.  ONE of us is going to have to repent, prostrate and ask forgiveness AND IF that someone is me, I'd like to get to it as soon as possible.  

[DeighAnn]

44 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

DeighAnn, I have already responded to you on that.... I can not remember the page it is on but it is most likely no more than 5 pages back.... let me know if you do not find it or have an issue with it....

Yes, I read them and the ones in Ezra don't fit as the biblical decree set in Daniel.  I think it is pretty important to have the correct 'starting point' as so much hinges on it. 


IF Christ is cut off in the midst of the week OF the 70th, 
wouldn't the temple HAVE HAD to have been destroyed within the next 3 1/2 years? 



Since there is already a GAP between the cut off and the destruction, why couldn't the destruction being spoken of be AT the VERY end when Israel had become a nation again?    With the END being counted way back then, where do we find what is 'determined' at the END END?   

[Charlie744]

21 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

But this took place like 40 years later, right?  And at this time Israel didn't 'own' the land, it wasn't their city, wasn't their nation.  Sure, they had gone back to Jerusalem but it was 'owned' by the Romans,  as they were still under the banishment of  Leviticus 26. They would not be a nation again until after 1900.  SO you can see how I put this as a future, nation city and all only coming into being way after.  

It did take place 40 years later....... but Israel still continued for those 40 years as they had since His crucifixion...... They had been ruled by the Romans before the Messiah and I believe they became even more controlled after the Heriodian period.

21 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

And the Lord never made mention of Daniel when He was telling of the 'Titus' time destruction that would fall on that generation.  

Well, I am going to give Him a call right now and ask Him.... He indeed told us through Daniel of the consequences that would befall them - they, their city, their building, their Temple, their land would be completely made desolate. But they could not even recognize Him as their Messiah, and they certainly did not find or see Him in Daniel chapter 9!  

21 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I believe that this part of Luke is the Lord speaking to that day, the destruction of the temple

Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Luke 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Luke 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

Luke 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Luke 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

Luke 21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

I have not studied these verses but I would think they speak to more than one period of time.... "not one stone will be left (21:6) to me clearly refers to the destruction of the 2nd Temple.... (final Temple), but how much of the rest is meant to speak about the end times or those times between the Cross and the end times???

I am still in the process of completing Daniel 11!  Charlie

21 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

You will HAVE to forgive me for my persistence BUT it is DRIVING me crazy to hear Satan being called the Lord AND IT WOULD DRIVE ME MORE CRAZY if I had been calling the Lord, BY the name of Satan.  ONE of us is going to have to repent, prostrate and ask forgiveness AND IF that someone is me, I'd like to get to it as soon as possible.