Telling the Truth

[1to3]

15 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

Let’s say your daughter is kidnapped. The kidnapper calls you and says you have to pay a million dollars to get your daughter back. He says he will call you later to tell you where to take the money. He says that if you call the police, you will never see your daughter again. You call the police. Then the kidnapper calls you back, tells you were to take the money, and asks you if you called the police. You say, “No.” You take the money where the kidnapper told you to take it, and the kidnapper is caught by the police. Will you go to hell for lying to the kidnapper?

I saw a movie like that once, it was about a mother and child having been kidnapped. The husband prepared the money, notified the police, and when they came close to get the mother and child, the kidnappers found out the lie and they killed the mother and child and escaped.

When you are dealing with crazed demon filled people, you can never tell which way it will go. All we have as Christians is His Word to use and take in prayer so to give us direction.

We live in a wicked world, Gods Word tells us to put on His full armor everyday ( Ephesian ch6) to be best equipped to fight the enemy though our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.  Many times The Holy Spirit of God protects and tells us what to do, if only we listen to His Holy guidance in all things.

6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ² “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: ³ “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”

⁴ And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.

Ephesians ch6

Bondservants and Masters

⁵ Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; ⁶ not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, ⁷ with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, ⁸ knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.

⁹ And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that ^[a]your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

The Whole Armor of God

¹⁰ Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. ¹¹ Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. ¹² For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. ¹³ Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

¹⁴ Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, ¹⁵ and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; ¹⁶ above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. ¹⁷ And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; ¹⁸ praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints

Edited March 21, 2021 by 1to3

[johnthebaptist]

3 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

I saw a movie like that once, it was about a mother and child having been kidnapped. They killed the mother and child.

When you are dealing with crazed demon filled people, you can never tell which way it will go. All we have as Christians is His Word to use and take in prayer so to give us direction.

We live in a wicked world, Gods word tells us to put on His full armor everyday ( Ephesianch6) to be best equipped to fight the enemie though our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.  Many times He protects and tells us what to do, if only we listen to His Holy guidance in all things.

 

23 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

“Let the wicked fall into their own traps, while I walk away unharmed.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭141:10‬ 

“I did nothing wrong, but they tried to trap me. For no reason at all, they dug a pit to catch me. So let them fall into their own traps. Let them stumble into their own nets. Let some unknown danger catch them. Then I will rejoice in the Lord. I will be happy when he saves me. With my whole self I will say, “ Lord, there is no one like you. You protect the poor from those who are stronger. You save the poor and helpless from those who try to rob them.””
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭35:7-10‬ ‭

 

“He catches those who think they are wise in their own clever traps and brings to an end their evil plans.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭

 

1 hour ago, Ray12614 said:

Side-step it. Say "You told me not to call the Police! Do you think I am an idiot?!!!!"

Remember when the Pharisees tried to trap Jesus by asking him if it was legal to pay taxes? He answered with a question.

Not all questions deserve a Yes or No answer.

 

15 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

I believe the half truth and the lie in these sort of things is referred to as "a kindness" (Genesis 20:13 & also with Rahab in Joshua 2:23) who also save the spies seent by Joshua alive.

She might have told an untruth (to save a life) but she really DID nothing against the truth in the sense she was bringing no harm to anyone who belonged to the Lord.

She as well as whoever it was covering for Paul could have betrayed those who belonged to the Lord rather then the governing authorities in their time (who were looking for these more specifically) but they did not. 

Obadiah hid a hundred of the Lords prophets from the persecution in their time also. Although I dont see any lie being uttered specifically he was just not being forthright about undermining those looking for them.

 

15 hours ago, Jayne said:

Lying is a sin.  But  lying in and of  itself does not send one to hell.  What sends one to hell is the rejection of Jesus Christ.

Yes, Rahab lied and it spared the lives of the two spies.  But  she was NOT commended for the lie.  In the New Testament, both the author of Hebrews and James, the brother of Jesus,  both listed her as an example of great faith.  

• Hebrews 11:31 - By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
• James 2:25 - Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?

No mention  of lying. Just peace, protection, and hospitality.

If my family were in danger and my telling a lie would save them, I would lie my head off.  I would have to repent  of it, and I would.

 

 

 

15 hours ago, popsthebuilder said:

Lol.... Seems like an exceptional exception to the rule....yet being for the sake of the wellbeing of a child is sorta a given given the placement of children in the sight of the Lord.

Perhaps lying, in itself, isn't a sin. Perhaps the sin, when there is any, is in the purpose of the lie.

[1to3]

 

"What a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive."

 Lying is not something we as christian should practice. You can say or not say things without having to use lying.

Lying and being deceitful is a way of the world. This whole plandemic is filled with deception/lies on so many levels.

Gods Holy Spirit will always guide us in Truth and give us His Wisdom as how to best handle a situation. Sometimes is is wise to be quiet and seek Him first before proceeding any further.

I know that Jews teach in Talmud that it is ok to lie especially to a gentile=anything not Jewish. But Jews will betray their own people. This told to me by my late friend Eddy -a Jew-who found Christ Jesus as His Lord and Savior. Praise God!

And we have the story of Rehab Joshua 2:4–5Some argue that it is not clear that God blessed Rahab for lying. God certainly saved Rahab and blessed her for protecting the spies and assisting in the overthrow of Jericho. However, nowhere does the Bible explicitly say that God blessed Rahab for lying. God could have blessed her in spite of her lie, not because of it. Actually, Rahab’s act of protecting the spies was a demonstration of great faith in the God of Israel. She firmly believed that God would destroy Jericho, and she exhibited that belief by siding with Israel against the people of Jericho when she protected the spies from being discovered.

 

Muslims also state somewhere in the Quran that it is ok to lie especially to an infidel.

We as Christians are called a peculiar people, in this world but not of this world.

Walking the straight and the narrow path of His righteousness is always the best way to go.

Proverbs 3:5-6

Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
⁶ In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by 1to3

[popsthebuilder]

25 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps lying, in itself, isn't a sin. Perhaps the sin, when there is any, is in the purpose of the lie.

The contents of the heart?

[john1]

16 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

Will you go to hell for lying to the kidnapper?

James chapter 4 verse 12

There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?
 

[johnthebaptist]

3 minutes ago, john1 said:

James chapter 4 verse 12

There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?
 

So how would the Lord feel about a person who didn't tell the truth, so as to save his daughter?

[1to3]

 Getting into the habit of lying leads to a reprobate heart,mind,soul. It leads far away from God and His being and walking in His presence.

Lying is a huge issue for many people, including Christians. It can be tempting to lie when you think it will benefit you in some way, but we must remember sin will always ultimately have a negative effect on our lives. We will never get away with attempting to deceive others as God remembers all things.

Learn more about what the Bible says about lying in this collection of scripture quotes. "Thou shall not lie" is one of the ten commandments, but even Christians have trouble with this commandment. May these Bible verses about lying encourage you to be truthful in all things.

Genesis 3:4 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

Leviticus 19:11 11 “ ‘Do not steal. “ ‘Do not lie. “ ‘Do not deceive one another.

Psalm 119:163 163 I hate and detest falsehood but I love YOUR Law.

Proverbs 13:5 5 The righteous hate what is false, but the wicked make themselves a stench and bring shame on themselves.

Proverbs 14:5 5 An honest witness does not deceive, but a false witness pours out lies.

Proverbs 17:7

7 Eloquent lips are unsuited to a godless fool— how much worse lying lips to a ruler!

------------

Beware of eloquent lips, smooth talkers and writers, who seem to have a gift for eloquent speech and writing, using intimidating styles of writing, they also can deceive  and intimidate many who through their own insecurity suddenly feel less than and than get caught up by  a smooth talker/writer slithery mouths, writing style/ art of deception.   A good teacher, especially a christian one will try to teach, speak, write so to reach all and will do so for the Glory of Gods kingdom and not for the appeal of their own pride and applause.

Um, um even here on worthy?

Scripture writes:

Let every Christ examine his heart .

1Corhinthians 11:17-34

²⁷ Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and ^[blood of the Lord. ²⁸ But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. ²⁹ For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. ³⁰ For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. ³¹ For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. ³² But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

Edited March 21, 2021 by 1to3

[Hopefully]

@johnthebaptist read this 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/perplexing-passages-do-exodus-1-and-joshua-2-permit-christians-to-lie/%3famp 

here is a quick read 

Falsehood vs. Lie 

It appears, then, that there are occasions when deception is ethically permissible. But note: not all falsehoods are lies. A lie is an intentional falsehood that violates someone’s right to know the truth. But there are cases in which people forfeit their right to know the truth. So the question is not whether it is ever morally permissible to lie, but “What is a lie?” 

A lie is the intentional declaration or communication of a falsehood designed to deceive someone who has a moral and legal right to know the truth. A lie is telling an untruth to someone to whom you are morally and legally obligated to speak the truth. There are, however, certain occasions in which you are not under obligation to tell someone the truth (e.g., in times of war, criminal assault, and so on.).

A lie is an intentional falsehood that violates someone’s right to know the truth. But there are cases in which people forfeit their right to know the truth.

I want to be certain that no one responds to this article with anything less than a fervent commitment to truth-telling. In arguing, as I have, that there may be occasions when the communication of a falsehood is ethically permissible, I am not suggesting Christians that should become lax or casual in their treatment of the truth. The truth sets us free (John 8:32).

Our goal should never be to wiggle our way around the truth or search for an ethical loophole. When the psalmist describes the person who is privileged to “sojourn” in God’s tent and to “dwell” on his holy hill (Ps. 15:1–5), among the qualities cited is speaking “truth” in his heart, refusing to “slander with his tongue,” and being the sort of person “who swears to his own hurt and does not change.” “He who does these things,” David insists, “shall never be moved.”

Edited March 21, 2021 by Hopefully

[missmuffet]

19 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

Let’s say your daughter is kidnapped. The kidnapper calls you and says you have to pay a million dollars to get your daughter back. He says he will call you later to tell you where to take the money. He says that if you call the police, you will never see your daughter again. You call the police. Then the kidnapper calls you back, tells you were to take the money, and asks you if you called the police. You say, “No.” You take the money where the kidnapper told you to take it, and the kidnapper is caught by the police. Will you go to hell for lying to the kidnapper?

God has more grace and mercy than that. 

[Riverwalker]

Sin is never in the what, it is always in the why.  Intent

If someone walks into my house with the intent to do me or my family harm, I can kill them and it will not be sin

If your intent in lying is to deceive and do harm it is a sin

If your intent in lying if to help and save people (genuinely and not in a self aggrandizing way) then it is likely not.

Jesus said we would commit adultery eve just by thinking lustful thoughts.

 

Have to add that the lines can get a little fuzzy. Like stealing from someone (doing them harm) to feed your family.  This would not be right because there are resources available to you and even if there weren't you got yourself into that situation through a series of choices and no one has to pay for that but you.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Riverwalker