Is the Trump of God the Seventh Trumpet?

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

My 2 cents. I don't believe there is such a thing as a last trump EVER. I think when it says the last trump, it must be talking about the last in a series. I don't believe there will ever stop being trumps because why would there be? Trumpets weren't only used in war. They are also used for celebrations and for music. No doubt there will be endless trumps in the eternal state. Just my opinion.

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, not an echo said:

I understand.  And see, I was paying close attention.  Buuut, I didn't have any "dogs bustling around, wanting to be fed!"

Shabbat shalom, @not an echo.

Good. But, understanding is a fickle thing. It may seem like we understand each other, but do we really? I have an old textbook entitled "The Five-Hundred-Word Theme (2nd edition) by Lee J. Martin, revised by Harry P. Kroitor (Prentice-Hall, Inc., Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1974) that has a cartoon in it on page 139. A person is describing his pet to another person, and the conversation goes like this:

"I have a pet at home."

- "Oh, what kind of a pet?"

"It is a dog."

- "What kind of a dog?"

"It's a St. Bernard."

- "Grown up or a puppy?"

"It is full grown."

- "What color is it?"

"It is brown and white."

- "Why didn't you say you had a full grown, brown and white St. Bernard as a pet in the first place?"

"Why doesn't anybody understand me?"

What's interesting are the pictures associated with each statement! They were closer and closer to seeing the same thing, but even at the end of the conversation, the person describing his pet was talking about a white dog with brown spots, and the person to whom he was talking was picturing a brown dog with white spots!

8 hours ago, not an echo said:

Concerning your opening paragraph, my understanding is very similar, perhaps even the same.  The "New Jerusalem and the New Earth (with its New Sky)" is all in God's Heaven.  Ain't no telling how big our Father's Heaven is!  Interestingly, the further that astronomers are able to look in our present universe, the further it goes.  And, some are even saying that it may go on forever!  Well, our Father can certainly make enough room for however many forevers He would like to have!

It's SO ironic! We SAY the same things, but we PICTURE something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT! When you say "The New Jerusalem and the New Earth (with its New Sky)," you see them in "our Father's Heaven!" You've spoken about looking off into the "present universe," stating that "it may go on forever!" And, you conclude "our Father can certainly make enough room for however many forevers He would like to have!"

When I say, "The New Jerusalem and the New Earth (with its New Sky)," I'm talking about the planet Earth being re-made! It will be similar to this present Earth in size and composition, but it will be more like the planet Earth immediately after the Creation before the Flood occurred! We'll have a "scrubbed-clean atmosphere" for a New Sky, and there will be no more pollution. The plant life will be restored, and the animals will be prolific once again with the animals attaining sizes that will be comparable to those before the Flood. I FULLY expect to ride a Triceratops (a Jackson's or Johnston's chameleon) someday!

The New Jerusalem is a LITERAL, CONCRETE city that is currently being built in space, where flawless crystals can be formed. It will land upon the New Earth, and will be the New Earth's capital city! Being a city so large that it is difficult for artists to imagine its immensity, we have YET to capture its huge splendor! We might imagine it as I do from space, in my icon above, but to see it from a few miles away escapes our imagination! We don't have to worry about "having enough space"; this city will be so large, that every human being who has ever lived would be able to live within its walls with room and to spare! However, the planet Earth will be able to support much more life than it does now, and we're told,

"And the nations of them which are saved (rescued) shall walk in the light of [the city]: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into [the city]. And the gates of [the city] shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into [the city]. And there shall in no wise enter into [the city] any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of [the city], and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

So, there will be other nations and kings over those nations upon the New Earth.

The city will be our house (actually our Father GOD'S Bedouin "tent"), and the New Earth will be our "backyard!" We are told in a couple of passages of Scripture that the sun and the moon will last forever! It's merely that the New Jerusalem itself will have no need for their light, the city's light coming from God Himself and through His "Lamp," Yeshua` the Messiah the Melekh of Israel!

If God created the earth for mankind and for the animals and made the plants for their food, and then He called it "very good," why do we need more? We're told by ThoughtCo.com,

"The celestial neighborhood also contains the Alpha Centauri system. It comprises the closest set of stars, even if their light does take just over four years to reach us. There are actually three all doing a complex orbital dance together. The primaries in the system, Alpha Centauri A and Alpha Centauri B, are about 4.37 light-years from Earth. A third star, Proxima Centauri (sometimes called Alpha Centauri C), is gravitationally associated with the former. It's actually slightly closer to Earth at 4.24 light-years away."

This translates to ...

4.24 yr (365.2422 days/yr) (24 hours/day) (60 minutes/hour) (60 seconds/minute) (186,000 miles/second) = about 24,887,054,183,731 miles away from earth! That's 24.8 TRILLION miles away to Proxima Centauri! And, that's our CLOSEST neighboring star system!

So, I don't see us "going anywhere" else in the Universe. Our home is HERE! God created the earth for us and He created us for the earth!

P.S., there's no "our Father's Heaven," y'know, until He remakes the "heaven" - the "sky" - the "atmosphere" - around the New Earth. On the other hand, if you count the atmosphere within the walls of the New Jerusalem, ....

8 hours ago, not an echo said:

(I haven't got to use this little guy in a while!  My computer took a notion to lock up on me a couple of times lately, and it locked up good bad last night.  I decided to reboot and try deleting all my cookies and cache, and now I'm back in business---so far anyway.  I saw some time back where George recommended doing this for the emojis to work, but I just never got around to it.  Then it got to where I didn't have a choice.  Ugh.)

Concerning your second paragraph, glad to hear you say it.  I have referred to this in some of my messages as "The Forgotten Millennium."  I don't know what all you believe Retrobyter.  But, if it interests you concerning what I believe, I go into this somewhat in my testimony tread titled My Testimony and More (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/252050-my-testimony-and-more/).  I also say somewhat concerning some important elements of Christ's Millennial Kingdom that all of us should remain mindful of.  Do you have a thread of your testimony (or something that would include your beliefs) on the forum?

Actually, no. I don't have a thread on my beliefs. I'm kinda afraid to start one. To make such a statement of my beliefs is to suggest that they're "locked in stone!" YHWH God, through His Ruwach haQodesh, has been teaching me more and more, even today! God did a MAJOR OVERHAUL on my belief system when I was in my second year of Bible college.

However, maybe I can make a TENTATIVE statement of my beliefs, with the disclaimer that they are subject to change. The changes of late are WITHIN the fabric of my belief system as it is today; so, perhaps I can, at this point in my life (age 64), say what I believe now and how God has worked with me to this point.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

My 2 cents. I don't believe there is such a thing as a last trump EVER. I think when it says the last trump, it must be talking about the last in a series. I don't believe there will ever stop being trumps because why would there be? Trumpets weren't only used in war. They are also used for celebrations and for music. No doubt there will be endless trumps in the eternal state. Just my opinion.

Shabbat shalom, TrueFollowerOfChrist.

I LIKE IT! Thanks!

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Not one word presented shows a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth

Matthew 25:31-46 is a "Parable" of the second coming and final judgement, not a millennial kingdom as you claim

A millennial kingdom on this earth is found no place in scripture, its a fabricated fairy tale of man

Shabbat shalom, truth7t7.

This takes a GREAT DEAL of DENIAL! Nope, sorry, but Matthew 25:31-46 is NOT a parable! It is as much a statement of prophecy as Matthew 24:29-31! Why are you kicking against the ox-goad? You'll come to regret it, y'know.

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

My 2 cents. I don't believe there is such a thing as a last trump EVER. I think when it says the last trump, it must be talking about the last in a series. I don't believe there will ever stop being trumps because why would there be? Trumpets weren't only used in war. They are also used for celebrations and for music. No doubt there will be endless trumps in the eternal state. Just my opinion.

Shabbat shalom, again, @TrueFollowerOfChrist

Actually, after thinking about it, there IS another reason for saying "last trump." On Ro'sh HaShannah, the "Head of-The-Year," the Feast of Trumpets, there is a SERIES of 100 trumpet signals that are sounded in a particular order. They consist of four trumpet signals in various orders:

Tekiah: A straight trumpet blast signifying Kingship.
A pure unbroken sound that calls man to search his heart, abandon his evil ways, and seek forgiveness through repentance.

Shevarim: Three short notes representing a man moaning in repentance.
A broken, staccato, trembling sound. It typifies the sorrow that comes to man when he realizes his wrong and desires to change his ways.

Teruah: Nine staccato notes blown in rapid succession, similar to the wail of a person weeping in short bursts. A wave-like sound of alarm calling upon man to stand by the banner of God.

Tekiah Gedolah: One Long Blast.
The prolonged, unbroken sound typifying a final invitation to sincere repentance and atonement.

After a mix of the first three signals blasted over and over for 99 times, the LAST TRUMPETING is the Tekiah Gedolah!

This is done once each year! Just a possible explanation.

[truth7t7]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, truth7t7.

This takes a GREAT DEAL of DENIAL! Nope, sorry, but Matthew 25:31-46 is NOT a parable! It is as much a statement of prophecy as Matthew 24:29-31! Why are you kicking against the ox-goad? You'll come to regret it, y'know.

As stated, the sheep/goats is nothing more than a "Parable" of the Great White Throne Judgement spoken to herdsmen

You will closely note that the verse below shows the "Final Judgement" to "Eternal Life" and "Everlasting Punishment" (The End)

Matthew 25:46KJV

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Diaste]

On 7/28/2022 at 11:19 AM, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree

"No step backwards whatsoever as you claim"

You are provided with a detailed description in Revelation 11:7-18

As is clearly presented and seen, from the Beast killing the two witnesses, to the 7th Trump and second coming is 3-4 days

Revelation 11:7-18 describes the time line in exact detail, and it doesn't describe your claimed parenthetical 

1.) Beast Kills Two Witnesses

2.) Witnesses Lay Dead 3.5 Days

3.) Witnesses Called Up To Heaven

4.) Same Hour 2nd Woe Great Earthquake

5.) 3rd Woe Comes Quickly In Second Coming, The 7th Trump (The End)

6.)Final Judgement Takes Place (The End)

No "Paranthetical" Is Seen Below As Claimed, The Timeline From The Death Of The Two Witnesses, To The Second Coming Is 3-4 Days As Clearly Seen Below

Revelation 11:7-18KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Yes, I understand. But no this isn't the answer. The 'woes' are here:

And as I observed, I heard an eagle flying overhead, calling in a loud voice, “Woe! Woe! Woe to those who dwell on the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the remaining three angels!”

The three woes are because of the Trumps. The three trumps which remain are the 5th, 6th and 7th. When the angel says the 2nd woe is past, that's the 6th trump;

To the 3rd woe 'coming quickly', it's not immediate. 

Rev 11:14 BSB

"The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming shortly."

"coming shortly"; is 'erchetai tachu' which is 'soon arrival', not immediate, per the lexicon below.

5035 taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), without unnecessary delay; used of God's promptness characterizing how He has ordered all physical scenes of life to happen on His perfect timetable without unnecessary "delay" (Rev 1:1, 22:6).

[5035 (taxý) does not mean "immediately" or necessarily "in a very short time" but rather "without any delay."]

As you will notice 'tachu' means 'at the proper time' and not 'immediately following a pervious event or action'. 

So no, we are not seeing an ordered timeline in Rev 11:13-14. In fact we have no idea when the 7th trump occurs in relation to other events not a part of the 7th trump, nor how long between the trumps sounding, nor what may or may not occur in that time.

It could be the two witnesses are present and alive for the 6th trump and the time between the 6th and 7th trump. But the two witnesses are not one of the woes in any case. 

If we use the ordered timeline of the woes as the chronology, as in the 5th, 6th and 7th trumps all sound in order when they are supposed to, and the trumps are the woes, and the 2Ws are not, then Rev 11:1-13 is a parenthetical; perhaps even between the 6th and 7th trumps, but I don't think that can be. 

From the 1st verse in Rev 11 we are taken out of the timeline of seals and trumps. Then it's an "And I will empower my two witnesses," not "Then I will empower...". And here it's 42 months of empowerment which doesn't seem to fit between the 6th and 7th trump. Unless there's 42 months between the 6th and 7th trump. Which doesn't work anyway as the trumps are woes, not the 2ws. 

Yes, the 2Ws and the beast share a time on the continuum. But that shared time isn't in the 2nd half. It's in the first half. 

The end is laid out by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse. The A of D, GT, His sign, His appearance, wrath. That's the 42 months of the second half. All of the above is within the 2nd half. 

The 2Ws can't be in the wrath of God so that pushes the time of the 2Ws back to overlap some of the 1st half. Then when the beast proclaims himself god at the midpoint he is given all power and authority over all mankind, which would include the 2Ws. It's rational to conclude the beast won't allow the 2Ws to continue once the beast has all authority over all mankind. 

It's also rational to conclude the one of the first acts of the beast would be to stop these tormenters of the earth. If the time of the 2Ws overlaps the 1st half by months or perhaps a year[the duration of God's wrath of which the 2Ws will not partake], then the 2Ws ministry would not be 42 months. 

It's again rational to conclude the beast will not share power once he is given all power over all mankind; and so the 2Ws will not share that time with the beast when the beast is empowered for the duration of the 2nd half.

That leaves only the 1st half when the beast is on the scene but not yet empowered but has entered into the 7 year agreement. A 7 year agreement which is the doom of Israel, which the 2Ws will oppose for their ministry of 42 months, all entirely in the 1st half.

This is God's manner throughout scripture. He decides on an action. He tells His prophets. The prophets warn the people before the action takes place. God does this when he is going to intervene personally, or when he is going to bring about events indirectly, as in using other people, kings or nations. Why would He act any differently at the end of the age? 

He won't. The 2Ws will appear the moment the treaty is agreed upon. It's gonna be a great day!

 

[Diaste]

On 7/27/2022 at 12:04 PM, truth7t7 said:

No There Isn't Two Halves As Claimed, Scripture In Revelation 11:7-18 Clearly Shows The Beast And Two Witnesses Will Be Present On Earth For The Very Same "Parallel" Time Of 3.5 Years As Clearly Shown In My Post Above

It doesn't work as shown in my other post.

On 7/27/2022 at 12:04 PM, truth7t7 said:

Daniel's AOD Starts The Future 3.5 Years, When The Antichrist Is Revealed In Jerusalem, At This Same Time The Two Witnesses Start Their Testimony, Both "Parallel" Time Frames Of 3.5 Years

Yes, the A of D begins the 2nd half. No, the parallel time isn't the 2nd half as shown in my other post.

On 7/27/2022 at 12:04 PM, truth7t7 said:

It Appears You Have Been Blined By "Dispensationalism's" Interpretation Of Daniel's 70 Weeks, Moving To Apply This Teaching Of A Future 7 Years To Revelation 11:7-18 With Their Magical Claim Of A "Paranthetical" Found No Place In Scripture.

Dispensationalism is wrong about dispensationalism. Dispensationalism is wrong about a pretrib rapture. Dispensationalism is wrong about 2 Thess 2:1-8. But it's not wrong about everything. In fact, a lot of hard work by diligent people in that camp has revealed many truths about the end of the age. 

I for one won't discount every discovery because of a label.

 

On 7/27/2022 at 12:04 PM, truth7t7 said:

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal "Future" Weeks Explained?

 

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

 

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

 

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

If I understand you are saying the 490 years is actually 490 days. Yes?

On 7/27/2022 at 12:04 PM, truth7t7 said:

 

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

 

Daniel 6:1KJV

It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

 

Daniel 8:14KJV

And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

Daniel 12:11KJV

And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

 

Daniel 10:2-3KJV

2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.

3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

I agree. 

On 7/27/2022 at 12:04 PM, truth7t7 said:

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

 

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

 

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the  armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

 

 

You mean except for ignoring what's actually written and the history that proves the prophecy came true and was a duration of 483 YEARS? 

 

On 7/27/2022 at 12:04 PM, truth7t7 said:

 

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

 

So the literal 70th week, which consists of 7 evening and morning 24 hour days?

 

On 7/27/2022 at 12:04 PM, truth7t7 said:

 

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

 

You must mean DAYS. You said it was DAYS, now it's YEARS?

Your words:

"Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

"If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written (Four Hundred Ninety Years)"

"Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days."

How can it be both years and days? 

 

 

[truth7t7]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

It doesn't work as shown in my other post.

Yes, the A of D begins the 2nd half. No, the parallel time isn't the 2nd half as shown in my other post.

Dispensationalism is wrong about dispensationalism. Dispensationalism is wrong about a pretrib rapture. Dispensationalism is wrong about 2 Thess 2:1-8. But it's not wrong about everything. In fact, a lot of hard work by diligent people in that camp has revealed many truths about the end of the age. 

I for one won't discount every discovery because of a label.

 

If I understand you are saying the 490 years is actually 490 days. Yes?

I agree. 

You mean except for ignoring what's actually written and the history that proves the prophecy came true and was a duration of 483 YEARS? 

 

So the literal 70th week, which consists of 7 evening and morning 24 hour days?

 

You must mean DAYS. You said it was DAYS, now it's YEARS?

Your words:

"Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

"If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written (Four Hundred Ninety Years)"

"Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days."

How can it be both years and days? 

 

 

It's real simple

Don't add to my words please

70 weeks or 490 literal days start at a "Future" command to rebuild Jerusalem as was shown

At the 70th literal week the antichrist will be revealed, at this time the 3.5 year tribulation starts

70 weeks, then 3.5 years, it's that simple

Jesus Is The Lord

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

As stated, the sheep/goats is nothing more than a "Parable" of the Great White Throne Judgement spoken to herdsmen

You will closely note that the verse below shows the "Final Judgement" to "Eternal Life" and "Everlasting Punishment" (The End)

Matthew 25:46KJV

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

Shalom, truth7t7.

No, the "sheep" and the "goats" are part of a simile! You will closely note the word "AS" (Greek: "HOOSPER," spelled omega-sigma-pi-epsilon-rho, with rough breathing and the acute accent on the omega) in verse 32!

Matthew 25:31-33 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, AS a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

The word "hoosper" is define as ...

5618 hoosper ὥσπερ (hoce'-per). From hoos ὡς and per περ; just as, i.e. Exactly like: 
-- (even, like) as.

And, "like" or "as" are words that signal a simile in English. Verse 33 escalates the words "sheep" and "goats" to metaphors for the two groups of people standing before the Master WHEN HE RETURNS!

You can't just relegate this to a "parable" status so you don't have to face the fact that "the Son of man (Yeshua` or "Jesus") shall come in His glory (brightness), and all the messengers with Him, THEN shall He sit upon the throne of His brightness! And, before Him, shall be gathered all nations!"

You can either believe Yeshua` and take Him at His word, or you can explain to Him later why you didn't.

Secondly, the words "all the nations" (Greek: panta ta ethnee) are used in verse 32, as well. These aren't INDIVIDUALS, they are REPRESENTATIVES - AMBASSADORS - for their various nations! This is a WAR TRIBUNAL! It happens after the war that Yeshua` shall fight on behalf of His people, and when He wins that war, He will decide the fate of the losers! Those who treated His people well will be made vassal nations in His Kingdom. Those who DIDN'T treat His people well will be relegated to fend for themselves outside of His Kingdom's protection. He CONSIGNS them to their ultimate doom, but if you will notice, the messengers (angels) do NOT throw them into the fire, as other passages show will happen at the "Final Judgment!" In this instance, the offenders just "go away" for the time being.

The hatred of God (and He DOES have hatred) is simply to leave a person or a people alone. It's not the punishment that shows His hatred; that shows His involvement in a person's life, even if negatively expressed. When GOD hates an individual, He just stops dealing with him or her completely. That's how He treated Esav ("Esau"). He worked with Ya`aqoV ("Jacob"); if he did right, he was praised and rewarded; if he did evil, he was scolded and chastised. But, He didn't work with Esav at all! And, we read this:

Malachi 1:2-3 (KJV)

2 "I have loved you," saith the LORD.

Yet ye say, "Wherein hast thou loved us?"

"Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" saith the LORD: "yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons (lizards; reptiles) of the wilderness (wasteland)."

YHWH God blessed the Land of Israel, but God did NOTHING for Esau's land! He let it go and allowed entropy and decay to take their course.

YHWH God and His Messiah will treat these "goat" nations the same way!