There are words I have never heard in the bible

[Sparks]

10 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Not when I was dead. Dead folks don't have salvific choice.

You are choosing to receive a gift.  You can do that.  Show me scripture that says you cannot accept God's gift of salvation.

10 minutes ago, Josheb said:

And now the fallacy of argumentum ad nauseam has been deployed. Repeating an argument over and over again and again does not make it correct.

Repeating the truth is all that's needed.  Your not accepting it is your problem.

10 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Show me scripture saying all gifts are identical.

Show me scripture that says a gift is not a gift.

10 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Show me a non-believer in scripture accepting God's gift of salvation.

I have received the gift.  I was the worst kind of non-believer.  This is silly to think you cannot accept a gift that is offered to you, that you somehow have no will to do it.

Any port in a storm for those who think Salvation is forced.

[Eternally Gratefull]

it is obvious this chat format is different than the rest. I do not know how to break yp responses here.. So I will reply later.

Quote

30 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Quote

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Quote

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Quote

Quote

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Eternally Gratefull

[David1701]

16 hours ago, Sparks said:

If you choose to accept a gift, or decline it, it's in no way work.  You have done nothing to make the gift possible, you have merely decided if you will receive it.

It's silly the acrobatics you have to come up with to insist we have no choice about salvation.

If salvation depended upon the decision of unregenerate man (and the Bible NEVER says that it does), then that would be salvation by will and work - sinful man would somehow have to make himself willing (contrary to his sinful nature) and he would then have to outwork that willingness, by accepting the alleged offer of salvation.  This would, in turn, give him ground for boasting, compared with others like himself, who also heard the gospel but did not make themselves willing and did not outwork that willingness, in the form of accepting the alleged offer of salvation.

The above is wrong is every detail!  It is simply NOT the gospel message.

1) Salvation is by grace through faith, not by man making himself willing, then accepting a supposed offer. (Eph. 2:8)

2) Repentance is necessary, in order to be saved (a complete change of heart/mind regarding sin and God). 

The Bible declares that this is a gift from God (2 Tim. 2:25,26), not something that sinful man generates.  How could sinful man generate his own repentance?  He loves sin and hates the light.  That is his nature; so, what is there in sin-loving man that would be capable of generating repentance from the sin that he loves and turning to the God that he hates?  It makes no sense whatever!

We MUST be born again, in order to repent.

3) Faith in Jesus Christ is necessary, in order to be saved (trusting in, clinging to and relying upon Him, in a relationship that works by love).

Again, the Bible declares that this is a gift from God (Phil. 1:29), not something generated by sin-loving man.  How could unregenerate man make his own faith in Jesus Christ?  He does not receive the things of the Spirit of God (1 Cor. 2:14), and he hates the light (John 3:19,20), so he WILL NOT have faith in Jesus, when he hears the gospel, unless God makes him born again.

We MUST be born again, in order to believe in Jesus Christ (i.e. have faith in him), so entering the kingdom of God (John 3 - Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus).

4) Salvation by man's will and or works is declared to be untrue (Rom. 9:16).

5) Boasting is excluded; but, in your scheme, anyone who saved himself, by making himself willing and accepting a gift, could boast, relative to those who had rejected the gift.

Salvation is of THE LORD!

[leah777]

3 minutes ago, David1701 said:

How could sinful man generate his own repentance? 

Please expand - how does the sinful person turn from that sinfulness to wanting salvation and having faith? turn to God? 

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Sparks said:

You are choosing to receive a gift.  You can do that.  Show me scripture that says you cannot accept God's gift of salvation.

Repeating the truth is all that's needed.  Your not accepting it is your problem.

Show me scripture that says a gift is not a gift.

I have received the gift.  I was the worst kind of non-believer.  This is silly to think you cannot accept a gift that is offered to you, that you somehow have no will to do it.

Any port in a storm for those who think Salvation is forced.

1) Did you have a complete change of heart and mind, regarding sin and God, trusting completely in Jesus Christ, in love, when you supposedly "accepted a gift"?

2) Do you thank God and give him the glory, for giving you that repentance and faith, or do you claim that you generated those yourself, thus boasting and giving yourself the glory?

[David1701]

1 minute ago, leah777 said:

Please expand - how does the sinful person turn from that sinfulness to wanting salvation and having faith? turn to God? 

Exactly!  He does not want to and he cannot.  This is why we MUST be born again, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God, by faith in Jesus Christ.

Edited April 6, 2021 by David1701

[leah777]

14 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Exactly!  He does not want to and he cannot.  This is why we MUST be born again, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God, by faith in Jesus Christ.

maybe I didnt explain properly. I mean what triggers the desire to be born again and turn from sin? something must happen for our sinful selves to want to turn to God, be born again.

[DeighAnn]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

THE WORD IS THE GIFT THAT DRAWS US TO GOD. 

AND GOD 'DRAWS' THROUGH PREACHING

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

SO WHO HEARS THE WORD, IS DRAWN TO GOD, COMES TO FAITH? 

THE SINFUL MAN WALKING IN THE WAYS OF THE FLESH.  
 

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Romans 10:17 SO THEN FAITH COMETH BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.  

SOME OBEYED, SOME DID NOT.  THAT WAS THEIR CHOICE. 


 

Deuteronomy 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Deuteronomy 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

Deuteronomy 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Deuteronomy 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

Deuteronomy 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Deuteronomy 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, leah777 said:

maybe I didnt explain properly. I mean what triggers the desire to be born again and turn from sin? something must happen for our sinful selves to want to turn to God, be born again.

This is a very interesting question. I am aware of most of the doctrinal statements regarding this, but somehow they all seem to leave out the necessary human/emotional component.

[leah777]

2 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

This is a very interesting question. I am aware of most of the doctrinal statements regarding this, but somehow they all seem to leave out the necessary human/emotional component.

perhaps (just speculation around birth) that it is like the moment a mother wakes in the night for no reason, just before her child needs her. That moment in silence when, out of nowhere, a deep sensation of a silent call happens. Maybe that is like when God calls us and we wake and listen to His voice, when the time is right? I do not know.

We know the silent child call happens to mothers, we dont know how.

Edited April 6, 2021 by leah777