Teachers, can you do better, or worse?

[Whyme]

3 minutes ago, Starise said:

Two groups of teachers. False teachers sent by Satan to mislead and disrupt i.e. the prosperity gospel. Secondly are the real God sent teachers and preachers.

So you look to be confusing the two here. You're trying to go down two rabbit holes at once.

I believe a teacher can imperfectly guide others, but i would rather follow the perfect doctrine in scripture, than another mans faulty interpretation of it. Sure i can learn from others but i follow no one.

[Whyme]

1 minute ago, OneLight said:

And you know this how?  Let's take a couple of teachers from this site, Alive and George.  Are you telling me that you know each of them personally and can prove how they are not listening to God, that they are not teachers according to scripture?

Im saying they are not the teachers referred to in scripture. Are they teachers? If you say so i dont know but they are not perfect like scripture is. They may not fully understand things like the apostles did, and may even be wrong at times. But they are not leading a whole denomination are they? Thats what im talking about. Denominational theology cannot admit it has error. I think everyone who seeks can help another seeker learn, but that doesnt mean they should follow everything that person does. 

[Whyme]

I will say this, i would follow a person who can admit their mistakes because im flawed too. I can learn from such a person if they have some bit of truth to share. But i dont follow imperfect people who claim infallibility.

[Whyme]

A good teacher points to Christ the Teacher, not himself or his church. In my opinion. Is this a true saying or not?

[OneLight]

6 minutes ago, Whyme said:

Im saying they are not the teachers referred to in scripture. Are they teachers? If you say so i dont know but they are not perfect like scripture is. They may not fully understand things like the apostles did, and may even be wrong at times. But they are not leading a whole denomination are they? Thats what im talking about. Denominational theology cannot admit it has error. I think everyone who seeks can help another seeker learn, but that doesnt mean they should follow everything that person does. 

If you are looking for perfection in the body of Christ, you will be very disappointed as Christ is the only perfect, sinless person that ever walked on this earth.  Saying that, why are you comparing man to perfection?  Do you realize that you can sit under the teaching of the Holy Spirit all your life and still have incorrect understanding due to the undeniable fact that you are processing what you are reading, being told and led to consider through an imperfect mind of man? 

I also hope you realize that the Apostles didn't always get it right.  Read in Acts how Paul confronted Peter about gentiles. 

As for following others, what do we read in 1 Corinthians 1?  I am not a follower of any denomination.  What do we read in the first 6 verses of Ephesians 4?

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.  There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

What does this passage tell you?

[Whyme]

2 minutes ago, OneLight said:

If you are looking for perfection in the body of Christ, you will be very disappointed as Christ is the only perfect, sinless person that ever walked on this earth.  Saying that, why are you comparing man to perfection?  Do you realize that you can sit under the teaching of the Holy Spirit all your life and still have incorrect understanding due to the undeniable fact that you are processing what you are reading, being told and led to consider through an imperfect mind of man? 

I also hope you realize that the Apostles didn't always get it right.  Read in Acts how Paul confronted Peter about gentiles. 

As for following others, what do we read in 1 Corinthians 1?  I am not a follower of any denomination.  What do we read in the first 6 verses of Ephesians 4?

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.  There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

What does this passage tell you?

As i said, God sent Peter a vision and straightened him out. I guess i just dont see the need for a teacher. I believe in following the Spirit. I believe we can learn from each other, but not by following each other. Dont follow the Pope, Kenneth Copeland, Luther or whoever, follow Christ and His true apostles.. The apostles already gave us an example to follow. I believe in simplicity too. I dont need books and DVD's, i need to listen for the Spirit to guide me. Fellowship is valuable. I could learn something from you.

 

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

[Starise]

2 minutes ago, Whyme said:

I believe a teacher can imperfectly guide others, but i would rather follow the perfect doctrine in scripture, than another mans faulty interpretation of it. Sure i can learn from others but i follow no one.

Ok whatever man. I can tell you had your mind made up already. I was trying to point you to ideas about good Christian teachers..

You are combining several thoughts in this post that seem contradictory to me. I hear you saying you can teach yourself with God's help. If you were stranded by God's will on a lone island all by yourself with a Bible God would guide you. Realistically that's one of those rare "what if" situations. Moses and John the Baptist were in the wilderness for extended periods of time. 

 We may not agree with the way a teacher does some things  but if God called the man to be a teacher, he's a teacher. If you reject a man God called specifically to teach you, you are in essence rejecting one of God's avenues for learning. The gifts in the Body of Christ all edify the body.

If you can honestly say you know everything humanly possible to ever know about the Bible you are one of the few who must have arrived. For most of the rest of us, we learn daily. 

I think it's healthy to be of an independent mindset, to examine what the Bible says in light of what we are taught. I don't believe it means we don't or won't need a teacher or edification that can be had in fellowship with God's people in the church.

Rejection of spirit led teachers puts a person at great disadvantage. I'll use the example of learning to play the violin. You can learn two ways. With a teacher or self taught. Almost 100% of the time people who self teach find after much trial and error they had to go back and relearn to play correctly. This is because the early methods they used impeded their later progress actually making more difficult and longer to learn than if they had just hired a teacher.. I suspect many self taught theologians end up in no man's land without any sort of guidance.

It's easy to say "the spirit" will lead us to all truth. In truth it's a combined effort of willingness to be molded by the Spirit and study from whatever sources the Lord provides. I say this as a person who is very dubious and skeptical of anyone I initially am not familiar with so far as them "teaching" me. 

[Whyme]

5 minutes ago, Josheb said:

It does not mean they are false, either. 

Show me the post where you have affirmed a valid teacher. Do it because so far your posts are one-sided and one-sided in favor of the negative. 

Did God send the Pope? 
Did God send Kenneth Copeland?
Did God send Whyme? 

Do you recognize how the problem arises if we use your logic and apply it to your posts? 

 

We're talking about the validity of veracity of contemporary teachers given the sectarian nature of Christianity.  Yes?  Why do you pick extreme examples? Do you listen to the Pope or Copeland? Have you read anyone here in the discussion of this op hold either out as a paragon of teaching? Are you familiar with the fallacy of the appeal to the extreme? Or how about what is known as the construction fallacy, from part to whole? If not then your studies of scripture and reliance on the Holy Spirit has been inadequate because they most definitely would have trained you to avoid such arguments. The Holy Spirit never argues fallaciously. 

You have. 

Let me suggest something I don't think I have read posted yet. 

 

Anyone hoping to learn from whatever source needs something critically important: a teachable spirit. 

Can you show me your post where you've evidenced a teachable spirit? 
 

No! 

And it still has not been answered!!! It was completely didged with questions and appeals to extreme examples. In fact, I have asked you several question in more than one post and none of those inquiries has been answered and addressed.

• How do we discern good teachers from bad ones?
• Upon what basis is it suggested sound teaching stopped with the New Testament?
• Do you not recognize the scriptural basis for learning from others (who are not scripture-writers)?
• Do you not recognize the inherently informative nature of every relationship? 
• Why are your comments and inquiries framed critically or in the negative?
• How many congregations does it take to make a denomination?
• Is a congregation without oversight or accountability a good place to grow?
• Have you learned anything from my post(s) or those of others?

A good many very valid and op-relevant questions have been asked and they remain unanswered under appeals to Popes and televangelists. 

Go back to page three and answer the questions and comments made in my second post on that page. Do I expect you to read all that? Yes! You asked the questions. If you didn't want answers to the questions then why were they asked?!!?!? 

I spent one short paragraph on each of your questions. 

Yes, I do expect the person who asks others for answers to read the answers he receives when he asks for them. 

 

I'll repost the two halves of these posts separately so as to avoid complaints against length. 

I follow the teachers of the bible. I read things on WCF too, im open to correction but i dont think im in error about my following God rather than teachers. I get joy from following the Spirit who gives me simplicity. Some people like long winded debates on theology, i just like the simple scriptures, and the simple path i found in them. 

[Whyme]

14 minutes ago, Josheb said:

It does not mean they are false, either. 

Show me the post where you have affirmed a valid teacher. Do it because so far your posts are one-sided and one-sided in favor of the negative. 

Yes, I do see where you're going with this. You're going into fallacy land and appear not to realize it!

 

Did God send the Pope? 
Did God send Kenneth Copeland?
Did God send Whyme? 

Do you recognize how the problem arises if we use your logic and apply it to your posts? 

 

We're talking about the validity of veracity of contemporary teachers given the sectarian nature of Christianity. 

Yes? 

Why are clearly heretic examples picked and applied to the whole of Christendom? Do you listen to the Pope or Copeland? Have anyone here in the discussion of this op held either out as a paragon of teaching? Are you familiar with the fallacy of the appeal to the extreme? Or how about what is known as the construction fallacy, from part to whole? If not then your studies of scripture and reliance on the Holy Spirit has been inadequate because they most definitely would have trained you to avoid such arguments. The Holy Spirit never argues fallaciously. 

Many of the posts here do though. 

Let me suggest something I don't think I have read posted yet. 

 

Anyone hoping to learn from whatever source needs something critically important: a teachable spirit. 

Can you show me the post where you have evidenced your own teachable spirit? 

Answer me this. Am i better of how im doing it now, or better of by following Copeland or the Pope? 

[teddyv]

1 minute ago, Whyme said:

Answer me this. Am i better of how im doing it now, or better of by following Copeland or the Pope? 

Another fallacy - false choice.