Battle of the mind, overcoming the flesh

[Whyme]

8 minutes ago, Josheb said:

 

 

What do you think is the point of my posts? 

I have no idea, seriously.

[Whyme]

Question, how does one walk in the Spirit and how does one sow to the Spirit?

 

Ga 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 

6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a person sows, this he will also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit. 9 Let’s not become discouraged in doing good, for in due time we will reap, if we do not become weary. 1

[BeyondET]

3 minutes ago, Josheb said:

An apology absent change is worthless. 

Yep. 

But verse 5 does NOT occur in a vacuum. It is always and everywhere in appropriate to take one single verse and form a position on it in neglect of all else that scripture brings to bear on a matter. In THIS particular case the error to be avoided is the view that the phrase "in accord with the Spirit" is a function of human choice or human conduct in the flesh. The very next verse explicitly states the mind of flesh is hostile to God; it is death and it does not and cannot please God..... SO VERSE 5 CANNOT BE CONSTURED OR CONFLATED TO SAY "IN ACCORD WITH THE SPIRIT" IS A MATTER OF A FLESHLY MIND. Being "in accord with the Spirit" is NOT merely a function of choice or conduct. If it were then anyone could do it simply by willing it or acting in spite of their own desire. 

And that would NOT be "in accord with the Spirit". Nor would it be a mind of Spirit. 

 

Yes, we were discussing verse 5. I was discussing it in the context of the very next verse. I was discussing it in light of the surrounding verses. I was discussing it in the context of the larger narrative in which that verse occurs. I was discussing it in light of other passages that relate to verse 5. 

Sad you missed that.  

If the apology is sincere then I will read a change in the posts. 

It is pretty easy to understand. Thinking on those things can be done by anyone, even Godless atheists. To think on those thngs with a mind of Spirit in accord with the Spirit is an entirely different matter than doing the same thinking in the flesh.

How can you say there is a disagreement if you do not understand? 

Why do you put that on me instead of practicing Matthew 7:3 or Philippians 2:3? 

You just got done telling everyone in two different threads you were going to practice humility. Because God called you to it. 

 

 

Romans 8:5 is a great verse but it should not be proof-texted. It should be read within the passage in which it occurs and treated in a manner consistent with the whole of God's word and if there's an argument or some disagreement with my saying that then that's not on me. Go back to the original exchange. Re-read it. 

Then say, "Amen, Josh". 
 

“Amen, Josh” what??

[Whyme]

4 minutes ago, Josheb said:

An apology absent change is worthless. 

Yep. 

But verse 5 does NOT occur in a vacuum. It is always and everywhere in appropriate to take one single verse and form a position on it in neglect of all else that scripture brings to bear on a matter. In THIS particular case the error to be avoided is the view that the phrase "in accord with the Spirit" is a function of human choice or human conduct in the flesh. The very next verse explicitly states the mind of flesh is hostile to God; it is death and it does not and cannot please God..... SO VERSE 5 CANNOT BE CONSTURED OR CONFLATED TO SAY "IN ACCORD WITH THE SPIRIT" IS A MATTER OF A FLESHLY MIND. Being "in accord with the Spirit" is NOT merely a function of choice or conduct. If it were then anyone could do it simply by willing it or acting in spite of their own desire. 

And that would NOT be "in accord with the Spirit". Nor would it be a mind of Spirit. 

 

Why do you put that on me instead of practicing Matthew 7:3 or Philippians 2:3? 

 

 

 

Quote

 

An apology absent change is worthless. 

 

I will never apologize to you again. That solves that problem. You let me off the hook easy. Thanks.

 

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 THIS particular case the error to be avoided is the view that the phrase "in accord with the Spirit" is a function of human choice or human conduct in the flesh.

Who is saying that verse 5 is done in the flesh? Not me, so why is it even relevant? What is your point exactly? However, How do you know God doesnt want us to choose? How is choosing a flesh thing?
 

[Whyme]

11 minutes ago, Josheb said:

 

 

It is pretty easy to understand. Thinking on those things can be done by anyone, even Godless atheists. To think on those thngs with a mind of Spirit in accord with the Spirit is an entirely different matter than doing the same thinking in the flesh.

 

Why do you put that on me instead of practicing Matthew 7:3 or Philippians 2:3? 

You just got done telling everyone in two different threads you were going to practice humility. Because God called you to it. 

 

 

Romans 8:5 is a great verse but it should not be proof-texted. It should be read within the passage in which it occurs and treated in a manner consistent with the whole of God's word and if there's an argument or some disagreement with my saying that then that's not on me. Go back to the original exchange. Re-read it. 

Then say, "Amen, Josh". 
 

Quote

Thinking on those things can be done by anyone, even Godless atheists. To think on those thngs with a mind of Spirit in accord with the Spirit is an entirely different matter than doing the same thinking in the flesh.

It also says to think about what is true. Jesus is the way Truth and life. Jesus is noble and praiseworthy. You say choosing to think about Godly things is just the flesh? I dont agree. The fleshy mind is against God, it doesn't think about his ways, the scripture we are discussing says so. Yep, the scripture says the fleshy mind cant obey God or think about Godly things. 

 

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Why do you put that on me instead of practicing Matthew 7:3 or Philippians 2:3? 

You just got done telling everyone in two different threads you were going to practice humility. Because God called you to it. 

You just lost the debate.

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Arrabon said:

"BATTLE OF THE MIND, OVERCOMING THE FLESH."

@Whyme

Older believers like myself love these type of discussions because we have had to "LIVE THROUGH" overcoming our own flesh with God's help and a lot of scripture reading, and a lot of prayers and more failures, before success began to happen one level after another, as I drew closer and closer to God out of the desperation of one maddening failure after another.

But, just as I thought I had put a sin behind me, I suddenly found myself engulphed in the same sin once more.

Scripture reminds us over and over what we SHOULD BECOME, as in 

Hebrews 12:1

"let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset (Entangle) us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,"

In studying "let us lay aside", you will discover that this is a process spoken of, not an instantaneous  response or result to giving your life to Christ, but a life long process of struggling and enduring that Paul and other authors speak of all through the scriptures like Peter in 

1 Peter 4:18

"And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved,"

One of the many things I love about God, is that He has "a built in disclaimer for us" about sin for those of us who are struggling, as we all do, with our own "BESETTING SIN", or sins, and with all our heart want to be perfect as Christ is perfect, as we pick up our cross daily to walk with Him. 

It's called forgiveness!

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

For those here who post verses and comments about all you have to do is this or that...making getting over your sins sound "EASY PEEZY," you might think about how you are calling God a liar about the difficulty of dealing with sins.

 

3 hours ago, Arrabon said:

Why do you think God said in Matthew 7: 14, and Luke 13: 23-24 that "FEW" who seem to be believers will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Try reading Matthew 7:21 also 

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God bless

My name is Arrabon

 

When we read the Gospel of Mathew we have Jesus Christ talking to his contemporary people of his time in Israel, as it is in chapter 7.

Why in your post above you put down "that God said" those words in Mathew 7, when it was Jesus and not God who said those words.

 

[Whyme]

19 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The how can you possibly post the judgments that have been posted? 

I dunno, Josh, I often post judgment without understanding. I apologize later. 

 

Yes, I can see that. I'll make it easy for you. Have the last word... one the battle of the mind overcoming the flesh, and I'll see you in the next thread where I hope my posts won't be needlessly misconstrued as arguments, I won't misquoted to say things I didn't actually write, and what I do actually post will be considered for what it actually states. 

You are wrong, thank you for conceding. 

[Sower]

17 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Paul in verse 7 he is describing someone caught in some situation of the flesh (something that is common to people and not specifically something illegal or criminal, perhaps in a habit that he has been living with for quite some time that it has become part of himself that he identifies himself with that habit and is has become his nature. 

It does not have to be a matter of sexually immoral behavior or lust or both. 

*It could be of the nature of being a chain smoker, this is a good example as we can talk about it without anyone being offended.  

In v7 Paul said that "he is not able to do so", "to subject his mind and himself to the Law of God".

What would the Law of God be in this situation where the man is a chain smoker and he has no control over it.

He a accepted the call to do something about it (which we may call repentance as he is trying to change his way) but Paul and we do not  need Paul to tell us that (no offense to anyone) that this man's self is so afflicted that he cannot do anything about that, as if his affliction has taken over the stirring of his boat and he cannot take it back.

As Paul said he has no control over it, or his affliction rules over him.

This is what Paul is describing a man in the flesh with afflictions of this kind is a man who cannot please God, because his afflictions rule him over, it is without being able to exercise his choice over his situation.

Hello friendt.
I smoked for 51yrs. I do not take offense to your 'smokers' example.
You said;
a man in the flesh with afflictions of this kind is a man who cannot please God,
As a young believer in my thirties, I never considered smoking a sin, as most everybody back then and during the 50's-90's smoked.
It wasn't till I realized I wasn't being a good steward of my health, and possibly others, that I came under conviction. But though I was able to give most all my old man lifestyle after salvation, quitting the nicotine habit was hell.
It took me over probably twenty years of humiliating defeat before I quit. And I didn't quit, but was delivered.
I believe the lord showed me how to be humbled during that time, like Josheb stated, the Lord uses not just Christians to accomplish His will, but whatever He desires be it a prayer, a man or an addiction etc. 
But to my point. I had a pastor friend I talked to about my inability to quit and the problems it was causing me. His advise was that the Lord will show the way of escape, in His own time. He may know of something about me to deal with of more importance.
He told me to not let this thorn in the flesh stop me from doing all I knew to do in my walk as a believer, to keep my faith in God my deliverer, and press on.
I continued to grow in the word and how to walk in the spirit, abiding in Christ, and serving Him. My bible has coffee stains, beer stains, cigarette burns and tear stains throughout. I kept growing, serving and praying, waiting on the Lord.
And He delivered!  (7yrs ago)
We all have our pet sins, some worse than others. If I had to wait till I was without any sin, before I could please God, I would never please Him.
"a man in the flesh with afflictions of this kind is a man who cannot please God,"
I agree with you that a lack of repentance will hinder my or anyone's walk.
I now watch other believers with obvious over eating, or constant gossiping, bursts of anger, etc. Then in my mind I have the memory of my own half century struggle of addiction. I realize those people also have their own 'smoking habit' to turn over to God, and try not to judge, but pray for them.
There but by the grace of God was I.
 

 

 

 

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, Whyme said:

In in my late 40's and only now do i feel like i might be ready to submit to God. I dont judge others for their failure.

I've walked in those shoes, Whyme. I remember and will never forget for as long as I endure on this earth. 

From that day when the Spirit of the Lord plucked me from this world until the present, I spent close to 30 years embroiled in the most severe of trials. The words of my mother who despised me, "You'll never amount to a hill of beans in this world  because you're worthless!" might seem cruel and even heartless to the reader, but I'm here to attest they were nevertheless the truth. She spoke truly. 

Praise the Lord! Even though I was destitute, having no family and no place to call home, doesn't mean that I grasped what Christ not only expected of me, but also what the Lord intended to display in me. It was too great and wonderful for me to comprehend. I had such a long way to go, my friend. The way there was grim and terrifying and so my ignorance, much like my mother's parting words, was a blessing from our Father in heaven. 

I only knew what lie directly before me. I didn't know about autism during those long years either, yet another blessing from the Lord. At no time could I say to the One who chose me "I can't do it because of my disabilities," because it never was about me nor my efforts, @Whyme. It's always been about the Lord and His will on this earth. 

I learned what it means to suffer agony, to be accused wrongly, to be an outsider, to lay down my life for another, to face death, and to be lifted up by the hand of God. I was spent when the Lord said, Rise and stand to your feet. I had no strength left in this body but when He spoke, I discovered that I had the strength to obey His voice. His will is always done.

This was His will and that work which Jesus Christ intended to display in me all along, and it was far too great for me to see on that day when His Spirit first came to me. The same holds true for you. I see it.  

[Your closest friendnt]

10 minutes ago, Sower said:

Hello friendt.
I smoked for 51yrs. I do not take offense to your 'smokers' example.
You said;
a man in the flesh with afflictions of this kind is a man who cannot please God,
As a young believer in my thirties, I never considered smoking a sin, as most everybody back then and during the 50's-90's smoked.
It wasn't till I realized I wasn't being a good steward of my health, and possibly others, that I came under conviction. But though I was able to give most all my old man lifestyle after salvation, quitting the nicotine habit was hell.
It took me over probably twenty years of humiliating defeat before I quit. And I didn't quit, but was delivered.
I believe the lord showed me how to be humbled during that time, like Josheb stated, the Lord uses not just Christians to accomplish His will, but whatever He desires be it a prayer, a man or an addiction etc. 
But to my point. I had a pastor friend I talked to about my inability to quit and the problems it was causing me. His advise was that the Lord will show the way of escape, in His own time. He may know of something about me to deal with of more importance.
He told me to not let this thorn in the flesh stop me from doing all I knew to do in my walk as a believer, to keep my faith in God my deliverer, and press on.
I continued to grow in the word and how to walk in the spirit, abiding in Christ, and serving Him. My bible has coffee stains, beer stains, cigarette burns and tear stains throughout. I kept growing, serving and praying, waiting on the Lord.
And He delivered!  (7yrs ago)
We all have our pet sins, some worse than others. If I had to wait till I was without any sin, before I could please God, I would never please Him.
"a man in the flesh with afflictions of this kind is a man who cannot please God,"
I agree with you that a lack of repentance will hinder my or anyone's walk.
I now watch other believers with obvious over eating, or constant gossiping, bursts of anger, etc. Then in my mind I have the memory of my own half century struggle of addiction. I realize those people also have their own 'smoking habit' to turn over to God, and try not to judge, but pray for them.
There but by the grace of God was I.
 

 

 

 

Hello Sower, this is exactly my point, your testimony is proof of my point that we can please God or God is please with us inspite of.

God is not waiting for us to be perfect in our walk with him to be please. 

(For the record it is not me who said what you have High lighted in bold, yes this is part of what I have posted but before that I wrote that in v7 it is as if Paul is saying....,

Putting into question what some people who read that part maybe saying or Judging other believers that because of their situation they cannot please God.

In my post I seek to establish that inspite of where everyone is God is please as they are many things in someone's life that God is please with inspite of....

God is please that we have not denied his Son Jesus Christ and we speak in due respect of him and we do not forbid our children to seek after him but rather we encourage them to have a strong faith in him.

I sympathize with what you posted and that what I emphasize, which is that God accepts our faith in his Son Jesus Christ in any situation he finds us and he longs to nourish us and comfort us to where we are.

Jesus Christ is LOVE he looks at us and he is thinking how to extent his LOVE to us by helping us.

PS

I did not say anything against believers who smoke or drink or are in common law relationships or even if they are mixed up in their gender.

Jesus Christ accepts everyone's faith as they are. 

And without getting in the politics of it, I have come to understand that Jesus Christ does not accepts their faith as to Judge them on a later day to Hell , Never is Never. 

God bless