Not being under the Law, what does it mean?

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On 4/22/2021 at 3:33 AM, PeterR said:

You're laughing at my sarcasm. Where do you see sarcasm here?
There are many ways to answer such a carelessly asked question, but I wonder why it was asked by a person who wrote more than 1,200 posts on this forum.
So I ask you again, have you heard of JESUS CHRIST, son of the LIVING GOD, Lord of lords and King of kings? I will also ask you immediately if you are aware of the greatness of His grace and perfection and the sufficiency of His sacrifice for our sins?

I wonder if you are secretly teaching a false gospel of salvation by grace plus works here?

Its not appropriate to question a members salvation as you are doing and making such an accusation. Please address a topic and stick to it.

[enoob57]

The Law of God was given to reveal in our hearts that we are sinners and sin brings forth death.... Jesus came and fulfilled the Law of God to show us He was not a sinner and thus His Words bring forth life... as God has said
Rom 3:23-28

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
KJV

As we are already sin and the world is given over to satan there remains no work or manipulation of things that can bring forth righteousness... we are dead in sin... only one has no sin and that 'IS' Jesus- He paid the debt of the Law by fulfilling the precepts perfectly thus the Holiness of God toward His Law was fulfilled and a righteousness in Christ according to Law was established in Christ alone... accepting this as the Scripture teaches brings one to the point of looking outside of themselves to the One Who 'IS' able to give life and that is by faith that Jesus' righteousness is efficient to bring new birth and life into the one calling out to Him for Life in Him....
John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
KJV

Thus if any reliance of works generated by self for salvation ~ then sadly you are not saved
Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV
 

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

26 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Thus if any reliance of works generated by self for salvation ~ then sadly you are not saved
Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Iniquity/transgression is disobedience to Gods law. [1 John 3:4]

Christ goes on to say that those who are founded on The Rock,
are those that actually practice His teachings; Matthew 7:24-28.

The works are not generated by self, they are generated
by the Spirit of Christ inside of the believer,
therefore the sincere believer will be full of good works.
For we have been saved for good works; Ephesians 2:10.

"And that Christ died for all, that they which live
should henceforth not live unto themselves,
but unto Him that died for them and rose again"
2 Corinthians 5:15

The ability to and desire to keep the teachings of Christ,
stems from sincere faith in and love for Christ. 
[John 14:21-24, 1 Corinthians 16:22]

Therefore:

"Hereby we do know that we know Christ, if we keep the teachings of Christ"
1 John 2:3-4
"They that belong to Christ, have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts"
Galatians 5:24

Because the fruit of the Spirit includes "self control" Galatians 5:23

Therefore we are granted the ability, by the Spirit, to control ourselves.
By faith we exercise that granted fruit, and thereby go away from the deeds of the flesh. Because we have been saved, for good works Ephesians 2:10.

"they which have believed should be careful to maintain good works"
Titus 3:8 

 

[enoob57]

12 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Iniquity/transgression is disobedience to Gods law. [1 John 3:4]

Christ goes on to say that those who are founded on The Rock,
are those that actually practice His teachings; Matthew 7:24-28.

The works are not generated by self, they are generated
by the Spirit of Christ inside of the believer,
therefore the sincere believer will be full of good works.
For we have been saved for good works; Ephesians 2:10.

"And that Christ died for all, that they which live
should henceforth not live unto themselves,
but unto Him that died for them and rose again"
2 Corinthians 5:15

The ability to and desire to keep the teachings of Christ,
stems from sincere faith in and love for Christ. 
[John 14:21-24, 1 Corinthians 16:22]

Therefore:

"Hereby we do know that we know Christ, if we keep the teachings of Christ"
1 John 2:3-4
"They that belong to Christ, have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts"
Galatians 5:24

Because the fruit of the Spirit includes "self control" Galatians 5:23

Therefore we are granted the ability, by the Spirit, to control ourselves.
By faith we exercise that granted fruit, and thereby go away from the deeds of the flesh. Because we have been saved, for good works Ephesians 2:10.

"they which have believed should be careful to maintain good works"
Titus 3:8 

 

Works are simply I love you back to God and growth in being like Jesus
John 14:21

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
KJV

You cannot convolute this verse
Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV

I stand by what I have said if works is a reliance of your salvation you are NOT passing by Christ unto the Father
John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
KJV
 

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

8 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV

 

We ourselves were [past tense] sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived,
serving diverse lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy,
hateful and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our savior toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy,
He saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost
Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I stand by the totality of the passage.

We know the fullness of what that washing means from Galatians 5:22-24.
It's because of that washing that the things in verse 3 are past tense.

These things are faithful sayings,
and these are the things I would that thou affirm;
that they which have believed might be careful to maintain good works.

Titus 3:8

Clearly the purpose of Paul's words in Titus 3:3-8 is that we maintain good works,
therefore one has to ignore those words of his to make them about something else.
Verse 7 is not absent of verse 8 or verse 3, Paul did not separate his words into verses,
that was done hundreds of years after the writing, clearly it is one continuous letter,
to be read in full context of everything said.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

24 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Works are simply I love you back to God and growth in being like Jesus
John 14:21

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

He that has my commands and keeps them, He it is that loves me.

[Due to the full context of the passage: John 14:21-24,
we know that His teachings are for anyone not just the Jews]

Thereby we know that those who actually love Jesus will put
His specific teachings [Luke 6:27-49, not the whole entire Torah]
into practice. 

If any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ,
let that man be anathema, Oh Lord come!  1 Corinthians 16:22

 

[enoob57]

2 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

He that has my commands and keeps them, He it is that loves me.

[Due to the full context of the passage: John 14:21-24,
we know that His teachings are for anyone not just the Jews]

Thereby we know that those who actually love Jesus will put
His specific teachings [Luke 6:27-49, not the whole entire Torah]
into practice. 

If any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ,
let that man be anathema, Oh Lord come!  1 Corinthians 16:22

 

The thief having no works at all was permitted into Jesus' kingdom so if God would do this for one would he not do it for another... also you have these that do not fit with your framework
1 Cor 3:15

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
KJV
as the ultimate of this would be the thief with no works at all to be tested... God is not a respecter of persons...

[enoob57]

28 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

 

We ourselves were [past tense] sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived,
serving diverse lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy,
hateful and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our savior toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy,
He saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost
Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I stand by the totality of the passage.

We know the fullness of what that washing means from Galatians 5:22-24.
It's because of that washing that the things in verse 3 are past tense.

These things are faithful sayings,
and these are the things I would that thou affirm;
that they which have believed might be careful to maintain good works.

Titus 3:8

Clearly the purpose of Paul's words in Titus 3:3-8 is that we maintain good works,
therefore one has to ignore those words of his to make them about something else.
Verse 7 is not absent of verse 8 or verse 3, Paul did not separate his words into verses,
that was done hundreds of years after the writing, clearly it is one continuous letter,
to be read in full context of everything said.

It is a clear passage and does not need to be twisted to fit any personal theology but is clearly saying what it says... and I stand by what I have said if works is reliance of salvation that person is not saved.... Nothing that is done in this place or the memory of such will be kept in the eternal state
Isa 65:17

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
KJV
He that was before creation and He that 'IS' after in the new heaven and earth with all in between removed from existence that is where the reliance is placed all else will be forgotten... all leads to the Righteousness of God and what He Keeps in the everlasting! And it will not be works for what part of not remembered do you not get?

[Desopixi Seilynam]

1 minute ago, enoob57 said:

The thief having no works at all was permitted into Jesus' kingdom so if God would do this for one would he not do it for another... also you have these that do not fit with your framework

The thief was repentant; Luke 24:41, admitting his guilt before God.
Perhaps he was repentant in his jail cell and the days leading up to his crucifixion,
he definitely did not steal on that very day, he would have already been in jail for some time. [All this is if we are only taking Luke's version into account, which we have to in order to put so much weight on the matter] 
 

In 1 Corinthians 3 Paul is speaking about the messages from himself,
and from others such as Apollos; "ministers by whom ye believed"
The foundation message is from Christ.
Therefore "work" built upon in the passage is referring to messages spoken
by preachers. 
Paul's point is that Christ should be our main preacher/teacher
not himself or Apollos or any other minister.

 

"Know ye not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God
dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God,
him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."
1 Corinthians 3:16-17

"Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Cor 1:13
"If any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ..." 1 Corinthians 16:22

Christ teaches that "he that has my teachings and keeps them,
he it is that loves me"

Christ teachings are found here; Matthew 5 through 7 and Luke 6:27-49.
According to 1 Corinthians 3 and 1 Timothy 6:3-4, Christs teachings are to be our foundation, not Paul's teachings. To sincerely be founded on Christ is to listen to and heed Christ.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

6 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

and I stand by what I have said if works is reliance of salvation that person is not saved

Works are the product of salvation; Ephesians 2:10, therefore a saved person is full of good works.
"they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts"
Galatians 5:24