When will we rule and reign with Christ? What will it be like? Is it yet future?

[DeighAnn]

On 5/9/2021 at 9:06 AM, Revelation Man said:

1.) Who states anywhere that Jesus only returns to this earth twice? What you guys to is CONFLATE the two Advents of Jesus with TWO COMINGS to start with.

Could you then separate them for me?  

Which scriptures are about Jesus's 'Advents' and which ones are about Jesus's 'comings' following His Resurrection.  

That would be really helpful.  If you were really ambitious you could point out in which ways they are the same and which ways they are different
 

 

On 5/9/2021 at 9:06 AM, Revelation Man said:

So, you guys confuse the lingo about these two ADVENTS with TWO COMINGS, which is just not factual, Jesus in John 20 told Mary touch me not, for I have not yet ascended unto the Father, but then 8 days later (8 = a New Beginning) Jesus brought the gift of the Holy Spirit (The groom always gives the Bride a gift during her Purification Betrothal period) back from Heaven with him and he then told Doubting Thomas to touch his wounds (Which means he traveled to Heaven, OFFERED the Sacrificial Offering unto God and then returned, and thus Thomas could now TOUCH HIM). So, there is no such thing as Jesus only comes to earth twice, whenever the Prophets or disciples speak about TWO EARTLY REIGNS, they are not saying Jesus can't come to earth in between events, that is just Men's Traditions, which I just proved an error in thinking. 

This is where I always get confused. 

Where are we told that 'Jewish wedding traditions' are to be followed for the Advent/coming/return of Christ?

What does the Holy Spirit have to do with the timing of them?  Where do I find it WRITTEN in Gods word?  And the Holy Spirit is a part of Christ so how does He bring Him with Him?


The Christians are raptured but the Jews are not, but the Jews traditions dictate the order of events for the Christians?  Makes no sense.  Where is this written?

You proved scripture correct, not an error in belief.  



As for 

touch Me not, (not mention of wedding traditions)

 WE have explanations such as" 

"Do not handle me to see whether I am still clothed with a body; there is no need of such an examination, for not yet ascended to my Father"

"“Touch” represents a Greek word which means to “cling to,” to “fasten on,” to “grasp” an object. The tense is present, and the prohibition is, therefore, not of an individual act, but of a continuance of the act, of the habit, “Do not continue clinging to Me.”   " The coming of the Paraclete depended upon His going to the Father (comp. John 16:7), but she would cling to a visible presence, and has not learnt the truth so hard to learn, “It is expedient for you that I go away” (John 16:7.)"

"Jesus may mean this: "Do not approach me now for this purpose. Do not delay here. Other opportunities will yet be afforded to see me. I have not yet ascended - that is, I am not about to ascend immediately, but shall remain yet on earth to afford opportunity to my disciples to enjoy my presence." 


"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father—Old familiarities must now give place to new and more awful yet sweeter approaches; but for these the time has not come yet. This seems the spirit, at least, of these mysterious words, on which much difference of opinion has obtained, and not much that is satisfactory said."

So these words could have been uttered because He was in the process of Ascending and didn't want to be held up, He hadn't Ascended and so God had not yet sent Him back, He wasn't to be touched while in the state of 'death of the flesh' and not in spiritual body (as not to come at any dead person), He was telling her not enough time had passed for His being back, He need her to quickly go tell the others, She thought He had Ascended and returned already...THE LIST goes on and on.  HOW is it you are positive your belief is correct?  What is written that makes you so sure?  




John 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

John 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing Him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne Him hence, tell me where thou hast laid Him, and I will take Him away.

John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto Him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God.

John 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that He had spoken these things unto her.

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

John 20:20 And when He had so said, He shewed unto them His hands and His side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD.

John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent Me, even so send I you.

John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit 


HOW do you get "8 days later" from that?


John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name.



Pre tribulation - Pre judgment - pre death -  pre enduring to the end - pre persecution - pre mark of the beast - pre soldier of Christ -  pre overcoming - pre Holy Spirit speaking through us - pre the two witnesses - pre alive and remaining - pre 2nd Advent - pre Lord of lord, King of kings  

just looks an awful lot like 

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired Him that He would shew them a sign from heaven.
Matthew 16:2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.

Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign AND THERE SHALL NO SIGN BE GIVEN UNTO IT but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And He left them, and departed.

HOW would it be possible for a PRE TRIB rapture to NOT be A SIGN to those 'left behind'?

And by pre tribs own admission 'Jews will be staying for their 'punishment' OF BEING BLINDED BY GOD SO that all may come to salvation. 

[DeighAnn]

On 5/9/2021 at 9:06 AM, Revelation Man said:

I mean the Groom chooses the Bride, John 15:16 – “You did not choose Me, but I chose you . . .” Then the price of the Bride is established, I Corinthians 6:20 - “For you were bought with a price.” The Bride price was paid when Jesus died on the Cross. Then the Betrothal, which was a permanent "Arrangement, see Marry and Joseph", The attachment of the Church to the Lord is also permanent, and forever. “This is the bread which came down from heaven--not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.” (John 6:58) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:28)

So are we 'the body of Christ' or the 'bride of Christ'?  

AGAIN, why do you apply Jewish TRADITIONs of man to GODS WORD and then speak as if it were GODS TRUTH?  Do you not understand 'figures of speech' and why and how they are used?  

IF I am incorrect, and this IS WRITTEN in the Word of God, I apologize with all my heart.  SO please just give me 1.)  chapter and verse, or 2.)  chapter and verses, or 3.)  chapter and verses and here a little there a little SO I can see if WHAT you say is written is written in the way in which you are saying it is written.  

Seriously, I don't understand how I can ask this same question over and over to many different people who claim this understanding and how NONE of them ever can and/or will do it. But traditions of man make void the Word of God just as the Word of God makes void the traditions of man by talk and explain and tell how this means that and that means this and as for WHAT IS WRITTEN... well maybe one day, I pray today is that day.  I pray you are that person who can just lay it all out in scripture so that I can read  what was read to get to there.

[DeighAnn]

On 5/9/2021 at 9:06 AM, Revelation Man said:

QUESTION, why would Jesus go to PREPARE A PLACE for us (in his Fathers house), which is Heaven, to prepare a PLACE FOR US only to return to this earth, raise us up to Reign on this earth for 1000 years with him?

BECAUSE for the last 2000 years people have been having their FLESH house die and rather than leave them with that decaying rotting flesh body waiting for Him to return, He went to prepare a place for them to LIVE with Him in heaven, in that celestial body (to every seed a body) UNTIL they all return to earth to SET UP the KINGDOM that was going to be on earth 2000 YEARS ago.  The earth to which the throne judgment will be AFTER the 1000 years of TEACHING AND PREACHING Gods Truth without any hinderance from Satans lies so that WHOMSOEVER WOULD, who didn't make it when Satan deceived them, won't be deceived again.  

Because GODS WILL is that all come to repentance and God is Just so everyone has to have a fair chance.  

Because GOD MARRIED Jerusalem.  He may have handed her a bill of divorcement but it wasn't because He was unfaithful.  He will live and dwell with us here on this planet and it will be

OUR Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name

THY KINGDOM COME, THY WILL BE DONE
ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.  

God wanted to be King, but we wanted an EARTHLY king
God came as an Earthly king and yet we rejected Him again.  


But one day soon

 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain for the former things are passed away.

And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

 

[DeighAnn]

On 5/9/2021 at 9:06 AM, Revelation Man said:

Paul, and ALL the rest of us will be in Heaven, doing whatever the Lord has us assigned to do, that may be helping create the New Jerusalem, but whatever it is, it will not be us living on earth with Jesus, ONLY those who refused the Mark of the Beast and thus died as Martyrs during the 70th week will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years. How many super Glorious Body people do you think God needs on earth to help Jesus? a Billion of us or 2 billion? 

Ever read Isaiah?

Isaiah 34:1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

Isaiah 34:2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter.

Isaiah 34:3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

 

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.


 

Isaiah 34:5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

Isn't that?



THIS?
Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.



 

[DeighAnn]

On 5/9/2021 at 11:58 AM, Alive said:

Yup--we are ruling and reigning with Him now and also will in the future. What we have now will be more fully manifested later.

Then He and we are doing a terrible job.  Do you seriously look around this world and think

'THIS IS GODS KINGDOM'??  look at us reign.  His laws are in full effect.  Look at His kings and priests executing His every order.  Look at all the nations submitting to His power and authority.  Look at how He punishes those not living righteous.  Look at how He is rewarding the righteous.  Law and order RULE the day.  I am sorry I just don't see it.  

Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psalm 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me; Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me.

Psalm 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Psalm 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

WE ARE soldiers and servants now told to go out and spread THE GOOD NEWS.  IMO.

In Gods kingdom there will be no murders, rapes, thefts, HE is going to RULE with a rod of Iron.  Law, order, organized, ranked etc.  


OF course this is all under the context of GOD owns and is in control of everything always and lots of other milk stuff not stated and hopefully not needed.  

 

[DeighAnn]

43 minutes ago, electlady said:

So Antipas has the sword of the LORD (the Word of God), and it's that sword that causes the deadly wound when he is martyred, and this happens in the first half of the 5 months to the political beast.

Would you say at the end of the first 1/2?  And in your opinion do the two witnesses come after Antipas? or during or before?  

[Sister]

On 5/10/2021 at 6:43 PM, Charlie744 said:

a) God created man "IN HIS IMAGE",

                   1) the angels were NOT created in His image - where man would be "a living soul". Angels are not a living soul. They do not have a special relationship with God and never will. 

Hi Charlie

Can we tackle this a little a time?

I found these scriptures concerning living souls;

Genesis 2:7   And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 1 Corinthians 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

So yes, I have to agree with you.  Angels are not living souls because they are spirit.  A living soul is referred to only as man, who is born flesh and dies. 

Even animals are not referred to as living souls because even though they are another type of flesh, they are not accountable for their actions, and cannot be judged.

So here we see the difference again between the creatures in the sea which only a third died, compared to man where every single living soul died.

Revelation 8:8   And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

  Revelation 8:9   And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed

  Revelation 16:3   And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

 

So that soul we have in us is our spirit.  The spirit inside man builds up and contains all the works whilst we are actively alive.  After death the spirit is preserved to be judged on what type of spirit man had in him.  Our spirit cannot operate unless we live in this body, in a living soul which is referred to as man.

Angels are living beings, and can be judged too, but cannot die a natural death.  therefore they cannot be called living souls.

 

Quote

Angels are not a living soul. They do not have a special relationship with God and never will. 

I am not sure if I agree with this entirely.  The holy angels of God do have a special relationship with God.  There is a trust there and much love.  They are spirit, and are serving God night and day.  They absolutely adore their creator because of their love, and the love he has for them.  They are classed as our brethren because we serve the same God, and in the resurrection we will be spirit like them.  Satan and his angels have no love for the Lord God their creator and because of this he has no love for them.  So in my opinion the holy angels do have a special relationship with God, whether to serve him or not because they have free will also, as has been proven.

[Charlie744]

15 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hi Charlie

Can we tackle this a little a time?

I found these scriptures concerning living souls;

Genesis 2:7   And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 1 Corinthians 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

So yes, I have to agree with you.  Angels are not living souls because they are spirit.  A living soul is referred to only as man, who is born flesh and dies. 

Even animals are not referred to as living souls because even though they are another type of flesh, they are not accountable for their actions, and cannot be judged.

So here we see the difference again between the creatures in the sea which only a third died, compared to man where every single living soul died.

Revelation 8:8   And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

  Revelation 8:9   And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed

  Revelation 16:3   And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

 

So that soul we have in us is our spirit.  The spirit inside man builds up and contains all the works whilst we are actively alive.  After death the spirit is preserved to be judged on what type of spirit man had in him.  Our spirit cannot operate unless we live in this body, in a living soul which is referred to as man.

Angels are living beings, and can be judged too, but cannot die a natural death.  therefore they cannot be called living souls.

 

I am not sure if I agree with this entirely.  The holy angels of God do have a special relationship with God.  There is a trust there and much love.  They are spirit, and are serving God night and day.  They absolutely adore their creator because of their love, and the love he has for them.  They are classed as our brethren because we serve the same God, and in the resurrection we will be spirit like them.  Satan and his angels have no love for the Lord God their creator and because of this he has no love for them.  So in my opinion the holy angels do have a special relationship with God, whether to serve him or not because they have free will also, as has been proven.

Thanks you for responding to my comments...... really enjoy reading your thoughts. It is difficult to imagine how angels might NOT have a special relationship with God. Certainly they love and worship Him and are very close to Him....but I still think they fall short of having that "special relationship" with Him as we do. They are created beings but are not a "living soul". They have all and many more abilities and attributes and powers that we do but they are not a "living soul". To me, it does not matter if they can fly through the universe, or walk through walls or pick up a train, etc., those things do or can not elevate them to be a "living soul". What separates us from animals on one side and angels on the other side is just one thing - God breathed his "spirit" into man to become a "living soul". There is no other  way to obtain or be this "living soul". By creating the angels first and revealing to us they are so powerful, beautiful, seemingly omnipotent from our point of view, God is telling us, "Yes, I made them and they are spectacular in almost every way, but they do not have in them what I have given to you!" You may not fly around the earth and have immortality (yet), but I did breath My Spirit into you - I made YOU in My image and I did not make the angels in My image - I just made them spectacular.  

When Adam sinned he gave up or lost that "spirit" of God because no sin can coexist with God or God's spirit.... This God given spirit had to return to Him and Adam became a living being - without God's spirit inside of him he gave up being in "His image"..... but God designed a Plan of Salvation for mankind to restore His spirit back into man - and once again, there is only one way and that is to accept Jesus as our Messiah and Saviour and His Holy Spirit (Pentecost). The gift or offering of Pentecost is both real and symbolic. It is real in that His HS is once again able to come into us while still on earth - but symbolic in that we still are not able to be present with God. But at the resurrection, God will look upon those who have accepted Him as their Lord and Savior and restore His Spirit into us in a perfected way (as we were before Adam sinned) and be able to be in His presence forever.

Satan, who was once immortal and sinless was also thrown out of heaven as Adam was thrown out of the Garden - both sinned, both became mortal, both wandered the earth, both did not have His spirit within them (although satan or any other angel had His spirit in them before or after sin), but God designed a Plan of Salvation for man to restore His spirit.... no plan of restoration for angels..... they will be brought before God and destroyed......

We are given a second chance - a choice to accept Jesus, the fallen angels do not have a choice ..... when they sinned they sealed their fate.... God's Plan of Salvation was not designed or would include them......this is why satan's time is short..... our time is short only if we reject Him..... otherwise, we will be with Him always.

Just my thoughts, Charlie

 

[Sister]

Hi Charlie

Excellent points.  Thank you.

Regarding the exact time of when Satan was kicked out of heaven, I see you picture that time to be when he deceived Adam in the garden, and I used to think this also, but if we go to Revelation 12 it is clear that he was not cast out of heaven until after the man child was caught up to the Father.  The scriptures cannot lie, and that timing and truth is written and revealed to those who trust that God's Word is true.

Heaven is structured well.  God's governing system is well organised.  All the angels have their ranks and their jobs to do.  God's throne is at the top in the most holy room.  Not all angels can enter that level and know exactly everything that God is doing.  Satan was one of them at that top level.  He was bright, beautiful and full of wisdom but God still did not reveal everything to him.  When Satan saw that God created the earth and man in his own image, he expected to be put in charge.  When he saw that wasn't happening he became jealous of the love God had for Adam.  All the angels feared Adam because he was unique, different from them, just like God.  When God saw that Satan left his estate to deceive Adam, he became cursed.  He lost his high position in heaven, and had to move down to the bottom of the ladder where the angels are least bright.  (The brighter the angel, the higher up in rank) So he was cursed and dropped in rank, sent to a new post.  But he didn't keep that post, nor repent.  He left that post to cause chaos in earth in the hope of destroying man.  He could still travel back and forth because he was not barred yet even at that low level because he still had a job to do and that was to corrupt those angels at the lowest level, lacking brightness (wisdom).  I suspect this didn't happen all in one day, but was a work in progress for him.  I also know that some of these angels left their estate also, leaving their post because before the flood, the earth was corrupted by them, and certain of them were dealt with and chained up to this day.  What I see is that when Jesus was born, all those angels including Satan who still had access to heaven (the lowest level), all left their posts to have him killed, but this time when they returned they were cast out for good.  This is when heaven was cleaned out, at Christ's resurrection. That part of the job is done.  God set a trap for Satan and his angels, and waited patiently, and that trap was Christ being risen from the dead.

That's my take and my understanding of what happened explained in my own words, but truth first - scriptures cannot be broken, it's our witness, and timing is everything.  Satan and his angels were kicked out of heaven for good after the resurrection of Christ, and not a day before.  To say anything different is to go against what is written. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Charlie

Excellent points.  Thank you.

Regarding the exact time of when Satan was kicked out of heaven, I see you picture that time to be when he deceived Adam in the garden, and I used to think this also, but if we go to Revelation 12 it is clear that he was not cast out of heaven until after the man child was caught up to the Father.  The scriptures cannot lie, and that timing and truth is written and revealed to those who trust that God's Word is true.

Heaven is structured well.  God's governing system is well organised.  All the angels have their ranks and their jobs to do.  God's throne is at the top in the most holy room.  Not all angels can enter that level and know exactly everything that God is doing.  Satan was one of them at that top level.  He was bright, beautiful and full of wisdom but God still did not reveal everything to him.  When Satan saw that God created the earth and man in his own image, he expected to be put in charge.  When he saw that wasn't happening he became jealous of the love God had for Adam.  All the angels feared Adam because he was unique, different from them, just like God.  When God saw that Satan left his estate to deceive Adam, he became cursed.  He lost his high position in heaven, and had to move down to the bottom of the ladder where the angels are least bright.  (The brighter the angel, the higher up in rank) So he was cursed and dropped in rank, sent to a new post.  But he didn't keep that post, nor repent.  He left that post to cause chaos in earth in the hope of destroying man.  He could still travel back and forth because he was not barred yet even at that low level because he still had a job to do and that was to corrupt those angels at the lowest level, lacking brightness (wisdom).  I suspect this didn't happen all in one day, but was a work in progress for him.  I also know that some of these angels left their estate also, leaving their post because before the flood, the earth was corrupted by them, and certain of them were dealt with and chained up to this day.  What I see is that when Jesus was born, all those angels including Satan who still had access to heaven (the lowest level), all left their posts to have him killed, but this time when they returned they were cast out for good.  This is when heaven was cleaned out, at Christ's resurrection. That part of the job is done.  God set a trap for Satan and his angels, and waited patiently, and that trap was Christ being risen from the dead.

That's my take and my understanding of what happened explained in my own words, but truth first - scriptures cannot be broken, it's our witness, and timing is everything.  Satan and his angels were kicked out of heaven for good after the resurrection of Christ, and not a day before.  To say anything different is to go against what is written. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So many good thoughts! I have read Rev. 12 and it certainly does offer a series of events and timing for when satan is thrown down..... I really have to think through this since I have not studied Revelation.... What is bothering me as I read this is that somehow God has to reveal everything in a manner we can understand (specifically for Revelation), and yet I believe there is no time outside of our universe... so I need to try and view this in a more spiritual way  - not in a linear time way.... but great thoughts!

Keep offering your thoughts ... good to think about this, Charlie