Polycarp

[Retrobyter]

12 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Amazing how many believers are bent on extolling the 'fact' that Yeshua is NOT now Ruling and Reigning.

Shalom, Justin Adams.

That's only because ... well ... He's NOT! Listen again to YESHUA` HIMSELF, carefully this time!

Matthew 25:14-46 (KJV)

14 "For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. 15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. 

16 "Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. 17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. 18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

19 "After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. 20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying,

"'Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.'

21 "His lord said unto him,

"'Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.'

22 "He also that had received two talents came and said,

"'Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.'

23 "His lord said unto him,

"'Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.'

24 "Then he which had received the one talent came and said,

"'Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.'

26 "His lord answered and said unto him, 

"'Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: 27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury (interest)!' 

28 "'Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. 29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

31 "WHEN THE SON OF MAN SHALL COME IN HIS GLORY, and all the holy angels with him, THEN SHALL HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33cAnd he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 THEN shall the King say unto them on his right hand,

"'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.'

37 "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying,

"'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave theedrink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?'

40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them,

"'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.'

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,

"'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not!'

44 "Then shall they also answer him, saying,

"'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?'

45 "Then shall he answer them, saying,

"'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me!' 

46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Luke 19:11-27 (KJV)

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore,

"A certain nobleman went into a far country TO RECEIVE FOR HIMSELF A KINGDOM, AND TO RETURN. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them,

"'Occupy till I come.'

14 "But his citizens (the children of Israel, particularly the leaders and elders of HIS OWN TRIBE, the Jews) hated him, and sent a message after him, saying,

"'We will not have this man to reign over us!' 

15 "And it came to pass, that WHEN he was returned, HAVING RECEIVED THE KINGDOM, THEN he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 

16 "Then came the first, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.'

17 "And he said unto him,

"'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.'

18 "And the second came, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.'

19 And he said likewise to him,

"'Be thou also over five cities.'

20 "And another came, saying,

"'Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.'

22 "And he saith unto him,

"'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury (interest)?'

24 "And he said unto them that stood by,

"'Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds!' 

25 "(And they said unto him,

'Lord, he [already] HATH ten pounds!') 

26 "'For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and SLAY THEM BEFORE ME!'"

If that's not your picture of God's Kingdom with the Messiah Yeshua` in charge, then you have the wrong take on God's Kingdom!

12 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Their eschatology tries to PROVE He is not in COMPLETE CONTROL right now.

About whom are you talking? To which Person are you referring? If you're talking about God the Father, He IS in complete control right now! If you're talking about the SON of God, Yeshua` the Messiah to be King, then NO! He is NOT currently in complete control, yet! His COMPLETE control will be 1,000 years after He returns! And, you will live (or live again) to see that day! 

12 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

How many believers have been taught to short-circuit the facts of the Gospel of Grace; that we are Ruling and Reigning with Christ in heavenly places right now.

This, of course, is a reference to one of the most misunderstood passages of Scripture today. You, as well as others, have read what you THINK you've seen written, and MISCONSTRUED what you've read! We are NOT currently "Ruling and Reigning with Christ in heavenly places right now!" But, if you can't get that passage right, it's NO WONDER why you get the rest of it wrong, too!

However, to your credit, Ephesians 2:6 has been mistranslated by many different versions of the Bible. Let's look more carefully at the passage:

Ephesians 2:1-10 (KJV)

1 And you (Ephesian Gentiles) hath he quickened (made alive), who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we ALL (Jew and Gentile alike) had our conversation (lifestyle) in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened (made) us (alive)  together with Christ (Messiah), (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That IN THE AGES TO COME he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us THROUGH CHRIST JESUS. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith (rescued through trust); and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS unto good works, which God hath BEFORE ordained that we should walk in them.

Pros Efesious 2:1-10 (UBS The Greek New Testament)

1 Kai humas ontas nekrous tois paraptoomasin kai tais hamartiais humoon, 2 en hais pote periepateesate kata ton aioona tou kosmou toutou, kata ton archonta tees exousias tou aeros, tou pneumatos tou nun energountos en tois huiois tees apeitheias: 3 en hois ki heemeis pantes anestrafeemen pote en tais epithumiais tees sarkos heemoon, poiountes ta theleemata tees sarkos kai toon dianoioon, kai eemetha tekna fusei orgees hoos kai hoi loipoi:

4 ho de Theos plousios hoon en ele-ei, dia teen polleen agapeen autou heen eegapeesen heemas, 5 kai ontas heemas nekrous tois paraptoomasin sunezoo-opoieesen too Christoo - chariti este sesoosmenoi - 6 kai suneegeiren kai sunekathisen en tois epouraniois en Christoo Ieesou, 7 hina endeixeetai en tois aioosin tois eperchomenois to huperballon ploutos tees charitos autou en chreestoteeti ef' heemas en Christoo Ieesou. 8 tee gar chariti este sesoosmenoi dia pisteoos: kai touto ouk ex humoon, Theou to dooron: 9 ouk ex ergoon, huna mee tis kaucheeseetai. 10 autou gar esmen poieema, ktisthentes en Christoo Ieesou epi ergois agathois hois proeetoimasen ho Theos hina en autois peripateesoomen.

1 Kai = 1 And/also
humas = you (plural)
ontas = being
nekrous = dead-ones
tois = in-the
paraptoomasin = trespasses
kai = and/also
tais = in-the
hamartiais = sins
humoon, = of-you,
2 en = 2 in
hais = which
pote = at-one-time
periepateesate = you-walked-around
kata = down/according-to
ton = the
aioona = age
tou = of-the
kosmou = world
toutou, = this-one,
kata = down/according-to
ton = the
archonta = ruler
tees = of-the
exousias = authority
tou = of-the
aeros, = air,
tou = of-the
pneumatos = spirit/attitude
tou = of-the
nun = now/current
energountos = working
en = in
tois = the
huiois = sons/children
tees = of-the
apeitheias: = disobedience:
3 en = 3 in
hois = whom
kai = and/also
heemeis = we
pantes = all
anestrafeemen = turned-back
pote = at-one-time
en = in
tais = the
epithumiais = lusts/desires
tees = of-the
sarkos = flesh/meat/muscle
heemoon, = of-us,
poiountes = doing
ta = the
theleemata = things-willed/wanted
tees = of-the
sarkos = flesh/meat/muscle
kai = and/also
toon = of-the
dianoioon, = thoughts,
kai = and/also
eemetha = we-were
tekna = children
fusei = natural
orgees = of-wrath
hoos = like/as
kai = and/also
hoi = the
loipoi: = remaining-ones.

4 ho = 4 the
de = but
Theos = God
plousios = rich/wealthy
hoon = being
en = in
ele-ei, = mercy,
dia = through
teen = the
polleen = much
agapeen = love
autou = of-Him
heen = with-which
eegapeesen = He-loved
heemas, = us,
5 kai = 5 and/also
ontas = being
heemas = we
nekrous = dead-ones
tois = in-the
paraptoomasin = trespasses,
SUNezoo-opoieesen = made-us-alive-WITH
too = the
Christoo - = Messiah -
chariti = by-kindness
este = you-are
sesoosmenoi - = being-rescued -
6 kai = 6 and/also
SUNeegeiren = He-raised-[us]-up-WITH
kai = and/also
SUNekathisen = He-seated-[us]-WITH
en = in
tois = the
epouraniois = [places]-above-the-sky
en = in
Christoo = Messiah
Ieesou, = Yeshua`,
7 hina = 7 so-that
endeixeetai = He-may-prove
en = in
tois = the
aioosin = ages
tois = the-ones
eperchomenois = coming
to = the
huperballon = exceeding/surpassing
ploutos = riches/wealth
tees = of-the
charitos = grace
autou = of-Him
en = in
chreestoteeti = useful-kindness
ef' = (epi) upon
heemas = us
en = in
Christoo = Messiah
Ieesou. = Yeshua`.
8 tee = 8 by/with-the 
gar = for
chariti = grace/kindness
este = you-are
sesoosmenoi = being-rescued
dia = through
pisteoos: = trust:
kai = and/also
touto = this-one
ouk = not
ex = out
humoon, = of-yourselves,
Theou = of-God
to = the
dooron: = gift-[is]:
9 ouk = 9 not
ex = out
ergoon, = of-works/deeds,
hina = so-that
mee = not
tis = anyone
kaucheeseetai. = may-boast/brag. 
10 autou = 10 of-Him/His
gar = for
esmen = we-are
poieema, = craftmanship,
ktisthentes = having-been-created
en = in
Christoo = Messiah
Ieesou = Yeshua`
epi = upon/over/above
ergois = works/deeds
agathois = good
hois = which
proeetoimasen = prepared-beforehand
ho = the
Theos = God
hina = so-that
en = in
autois = those
peripateesoomen. = we-should-walk-around/we-should-go-full-circle.

The bottom line is this: WE ARE NOT IN THE PLACES ABOVE THE SKY, YET! ONLY IN THE MESSIAH, being one with Him, are we "present" there now! Only in the Messiah are we resurrected now!  If you were actually there, what's it like? Can you describe these places above the sky to us? NO. You are NOT actually there, yet! Can you describe for us what it is like to have a resurrected body? NO. You don't actually have such a body, yet!

Furthermore, this passage notes that it will be "IN THE AGES TO COME" that "He-may-prove ... the exceeding/surpassing riches/wealth of-the grace of-Him in useful-kindness upon us."

12 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

How many are trying to prove that God's Omnipotence and Sovereign Reign is not real?

At NO TIME have I EVER tried to prove that God's Omnipotence and His Sovereign Reign is not real. To the contrary, God, Yeshua`s Father, is the ONLY ONE who could lay claim to being omnipotent and completely sovereign. However, He is also estranged from His human creation because of the rampant sins and the consequences of their sinful actions.

BUT GOD HAS A PLAN! (He's had it for a VERY long time.) He would send His only Son to be the propitiation for their sins! If they trust God to apply that payment for sins to their own lives, God would declare them to be righteous, justifying them by having His Son trade places with them. It's not an even trade; it's not even a simple exchange: Paul said that Messiah Yeshua`, the Son of God, BECAME our sin that WE might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD in the Messiah. While Yeshua` was our sin on the cross, He was estranged from His Father, crying out to Him, "MY GOD, MY GOD! Why hast thou forsaken me?" However, beyond the three hours on the cross, the rift was repaired because He could cry, "It is finished," and the Son of God could say at His death, "FATHER, into thy hands I commend my spirit." Therefore, it is NOT true that Yeshua` the Messiah of God went to "Hell"; He went to the GRAVE (Hebrew: sh'owl = the "asked about" at a memorial; Greek: hadees = the "unseen") for three days and three nights (and order IS important since, for the Jews, it had always been "and the evening and the morning were the first day," the Jewish day beginning at sundown). This was proof positive that Yeshua` had actually died.

Now, part of that plan was that Yeshua`, the Messiah of God, would still be the King of kings - the World Emperor - one day AS PROMISED TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL and TO KING DAVID HIS FATHER!

12 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

How many actually speak against the Gospel?

Believe it or not, if one denies that Yeshua` shall come again and begin His earthly reign over the children of Israel and then over the entire earth, THAT is speaking against and even DENYING the Gospel!

The "death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ" is NOT the Gospel; it is an addendum TO the Gospel! But, it's as John said:

1 John 5:1 (KJV)

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

And, what is the spirit of "antichrist?"

1 John 4:2-3 (KJV)

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (Yeshua` [is] the Messiah in flesh having come) is of God (is out of the God): 3 And every spirit that confesseth not (any spirit that not confesses) that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (Yeshua` the Messiah in flesh is come) is not of God (is not out of the God): and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1 John 2:22-24 (KJV)

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah)? He is antichrist (anti-Messiah), that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

The antichrist attitude is anyone who says that Yeshua` was NOT the Messiah come in the flesh; that is, He was NOT the Anointed of God to reign over Israel who already came in flesh! Can you see how CRUCIAL this is? Yeshua` MUST reign over Israel AS PROMISED! And, woe to the one who claims otherwise!

[Retrobyter]

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

That is woefully incorrect. That war lasted seven years and laid waste to the entire country. In the end Judaism was also in shambles, not just the country and the countryside. That statement is so profoundly incorrect I encourage the matter be studied.

Shalom, Josheb.

You understand, of course, that those "seven years" didn't fulfill anything that was promised in the 70th "week" of Daniel 9, right? It's a total coincidence in the numbering of 7 years, right?

Look, the "tribulation" or "pressure" had begun in the First Century A.D., but it didn't END there! It's been going on since the First Century, but the raining of bombs in Israel today is PROOF POSITIVE that the "tribulation" is still occurring! The "pressure" on the Jews will continue until the Messiah returns and rescues them from the dangers that surround them today!

While they rejected their Messiah early in the First Century, God has not forgotten them!

Matthew 24:9 (KJV)

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted (Greek: Tote paradoosousin humas eis thlipsin = "Then they-will-deliver you into tribulation"), and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

...

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and THEN shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven (Greek: opsontai ton Huion tou anthroopou erchomenon epi toon nefaloon tou ouranou = "they-shall-see the Son of-the man coming upon the clouds of-the sky") with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Romans 11:11-29 (KJV)

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? GOD FORBID: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then,

"The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in."

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but FEAR: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the NATURAL BRANCHES, be graffed into THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness IN PART is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written,

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Isaiah 59:20-21; Isaiah 27:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: BUT as touching the election, they are BELOVED for THE FATHERS' sakes (for the sakes of the PATRIARCHS). 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (That is, God doesn't renege upon the gifts and calling He promised!)

And, when were those "gifts and calling" made?

THROUGHOUT THE PROPHETS!

Isaiah 41:8-14 (KJV)

8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.
10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.
13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.
14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

This is but a sample of all I could have chosen!

[Heleadethme]

On 5/19/2021 at 9:54 AM, Josheb said:

And verses 1:3 and 22:10 tell us when: near to when the Revelation was given and long-sealed prophecies were unsealed. 

Revelation 22:10
"And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near."

They were events in their future, but not ours. Future-tense to them; past-tense to us. Despite those events having already occurred Christ will come again on the last day. He has come many times in many ways for many purposes and he will come again, at which time all will face judgment and be held to account for every thought, word, and deed. Blessedly, thankfully, to the praise and glory of God almighty, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Judged, but not condemned. 

He is coming. 

But he is not coming as many here have asserted. 

We are looking specifically for the blessed hope of His second coming, and it will be cataclysmic....the old order of things passing away where time will be no more.  It sure doesn't sound as though this is going to be just another out of many appearings and visitations and goings forth to specific people or a specific nation....but it will involve the whole world.

[Justin Adams]

34 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

We are looking specifically for the blessed hope of His second coming, and it will be cataclysmic....the old order of things passing away where time will be no more.  It sure doesn't sound as though this is going to be just another out of many appearings and visitations and goings forth to specific people or a specific nation....but it will involve the whole world.

Meanwhile: an ordinary muslim Iranian has a visit from the Lord. He starts a church and it grows amazingly. Another lady that BELIEVES sees a whole tribe cast their idols and pagan stuff in a pile and they ALL believe. Countless visions and appearances of our Lord around the world put paid to the many in our church that say Yeshua is NOT ruling and reigning right now. Our country slides down the slope of unbelief and African churches explode. Some even on this site deny the Lord and try in vain to promote unbelief.

Jude 1:4

4 For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed— ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Yet in the courtroom of our God they all watch as thousands BELIEVE in the most obscure places on the planet. One day the Lord High God will say - "ENOUGH". and then 70AD will be the shadow and example of what will really happen soon.

If you read Josephus, it is chilling how people fought among themselves in Jerusalem in around the time of AD70 and even ate each other in a bloody frenzy inside the temple. Then God came in fierce wrath and they did 'look upon Him whom they had pierced' as the place was utterly destroyed. A terrific mourning cry went up and this is still talked about in Israel today.

A HARBINGER for sure. We should be sober and watchful and by attrition save those out of the fire.

Jude 1:22

22 And indeed, have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; and to still others show mercy tempered with fear, hating even the clothing stained by the flesh. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Heleadethme]

15 hours ago, Josheb said:

On occasions when scripture itself does not specify a timeframe, what is it in scripture that leads you to believe 1) any prophecy is fulfilled partially, and 2) the time in between the parts can be 2000 years? More specifically, what is it in the specific verse in question that leads you to believe there is a partial fulfillment and the a rest of the fulfillment?

I dont' understand all scripture by any means, especially eschatological things, but the Lord was gracious to show me some principles that can be of help in understanding His word when He helps us apply them:

Ecc 1:9

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Psa 62:11

One thing God has spoken, two things I have heard

Mat 13:34

All these things spake Jesus (the Word made flesh) unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them

Regarding that specific verse Zech. 12:10, I look at it in the context of the surrounding passages, speaking of "that day".  And also cross referencing it where we see the same thing spoken of again in Rev. 1:7.  Not everything spoken of in those Zechariah passages and the Rev 1 verse have been fulfilled yet.

 

[Heleadethme]

8 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Meanwhile: an ordinary Iranian has a visit from the Lord. He starts a church and it grows amazingly. Another lady that BELIEVES sees a whole tribe cast their idol and pagan stuff in a pile and they ALL believe. Countless visions and appearances of our Lord around the world put paid to the many in our church that say Yeshua is NOT ruling and reigning right now. Our country slides down the slope of unbelief and African churches explode. Some even on this site deny the Lord and try in vain to promote unbelief.

Jude 1:4

4 For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed— ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Yet in the courtroom of our God they all watch as thousands BELIEVE in the most obscure places on the planet. One day the Lord High God will say - "ENOUGH". and then 70AD will be the shadow and example of what will really happen soon.

If you read Josephus, it is chilling how people fought among themselves in Jerusalem in around the time of AD70 and even ate each other in a bloody frenzy inside the temple. Then God came in fierce wrath and they did 'look upon Him whom they had pierced' as the place was utterly destroyed. A terrific mourning cry went up and this is still talked about in Israel today.

A HARBINGER for sure. We should be sober and watchful and by attrition save those out of the fire.

Jude 1:22

22 And indeed, have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; and to still others show mercy tempered with fear, hating even the clothing stained by the flesh. 

 

Are you saying that the new order of things has already begun where time is no more?  In a way I suppose it has, and we can taste of these things......but not yet completely and fully.  Perhaps that is our fault in a way, but keeping in mind the church has only thus far received the down payment on the Promise.

Jesus is ruling and reigning now, but we do not yet see everything put under His feet.  That job has begun but will not be finished until He comes the second time.  Heaven has received Him until that appointed day when His enemies will be made His footstool...when every knee will bow.  Footstool implies both subjection of enemies as well as rest - battle over.

The Holy Spirit was already poured out, as Jesus said He would not leave them as orphans but would come to them.....but in spite of that the apostles were still looking forward to the blessed hope and second coming of the Lord.

To the best of my understanding this is a "yes but not yet" kind of thing...?

[Justin Adams]

11 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

To the best of my understanding this is a "yes but not yet" kind of thing...?

It hinges on our BELIEF in action: we seem to have lost the vision of the early church that EXPECTED it all.

Jan Schlebusch, a wonderful man of God from South Africa, is one of the tens of thousands of volunteers who have shown "JESUS," using either 16 mm or on video.

Jan had taken a most risky step.  He was about to show "JESUS" to a small group of hardened criminals in a maximum security prison in South Africa.  He was alone in a room with the "toughest of the tough" - robbers, rapists and murderers.  Several of them were "lifers."  Jan knew that any one of the prisoners could easily slit his throat with a knife when he dimmed the lights to show "JESUS."

However, despite the pressure he felt, Jan was obedient.  As the story unfolded many of the prisoners mocked and swore at the screen.  Their language was foul and offensive.  Gradually, they quieted down and became more interested in the story.  Then an astounding thing happened.

During the crucifixion, several began to weep.  By the time the prayer of invitation was completed, hardened criminals - EVERY ONE OF THEM - were on their knees, sobbing, asking God to forgive them, praying to invite Christ into their lives.

Shocked and amazed, Jan wasn't sure what has just happened.  He turned his head to the corner of the room...startled by the sight.  Standing before him was an awesome being, 10-feet tall, robed in brilliant white...an angel.  Jan said the angel's face was obscured.  He could see nothing above the angel's shoulders.  This messenger of God lifted up his hand and pointed a finger directly toward Jan:  "You see, Jan, all you must do is be available and do the work."

Instantly, the angel vanished --but not the sense of awe that was engulfing Jan.  He had seen the Living God at work, pouring out His love upon those for whom He died to save.  And he had witnessed the greatest miracle of all.  He had seen the vilest of sinners being born from above, becoming righteous in Jesus.

Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable. Psalm 145:3

Edited May 21, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Guest kingdombrat]

2 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

We are looking specifically for the blessed hope of His second coming, and it will be cataclysmic....the old order of things passing away where time will be no more.  It sure doesn't sound as though this is going to be just another out of many appearings and visitations and goings forth to specific people or a specific nation....but it will involve the whole world.

You're debating someone who took this Verse:  When pointing out that ultimately God created SIN.

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

And turned that Verse into God created the components for sin to happen.  A complete walk around the fact of Scripture.  When you're able to justifiably refute Scripture for your own knowledge, you've become impotent to furthering the knowledge of God!

[Heleadethme]

5 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

You're debating someone who took this Verse:  When pointing out that ultimately God created SIN.

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

And turned that Verse into God created the components for sin to happen.  A complete walk around the fact of Scripture.  When you're able to justifiably refute Scripture for your own knowledge, you've become impotent to furthering the knowledge of God!

Who can fathom the Lord?

Isa 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

[Guest kingdombrat]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Who can fathom the Lord?

Isa 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

AMEN and spot on!