The size of New Jerusalem

[OneLight]

6 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@OneLight

Stephen described the changes that took place in Heaven and Heaven is not the same anymore. 

It is exactly what Jesus proclaimed that day in the Synagogue in his home town in Nazareth when he said; this day the Isaiah 61:1, "the Spirit of the .....)  has been fulfilled in him self. In Luke 4:18 . And the readings of Isaiah ch.65, 66.

Pointing to the time when He will sit on the Heavenly Throne with His Heavenly Father. 

The disciples who were not given the book of revelation the spent the rest of their lives declaring that there is a fundamental change, and the change is so radical that authority was taken away in the underworld and on earth and is given unto him and all authority in Heaven has been given to him.

Do you think they spoke against Revelation twenty.

Or revelation twenty speakers against their teachings. 

It also says besides not add and not to change that when it is read that it cannot be understood because it cannot be understood with man's mindset.

To conceived imaginations according to his knowledge which will always will change with the change of his knowledge.  And we are both literal and spiritual mind set people. You are not JW, why you talk like them.

When what we will find in the New Earth " IT IS RIGHTEOUSNESS" 

Can you find righteousness in the NEW EARTH? 

Jesus Christ said: I HAVE THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES.

AND I HAVE THE KEY OF DAVID.

Here is where I think our communication is going off kilter.  You and I are talking about two different subjects.  I was speaking of Revelation 20 & 21 while never mentioning or hinting Jesus not being at His Fathers right hand, on His throne, while you keep going back to that.  Of course He is on His throne.

Can you explain what this has to do with Revelation 20 and 21?

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

Here is where I think our communication is going off kilter.  You and I are talking about two different subjects.  I was speaking of Revelation 20 & 21 while never mentioning or hinting Jesus not being at His Fathers right hand, on His throne, while you keep going back to that.  Of course He is on His Throne.

Can you explain what this has to do with Revelation 20 and 21?

 

I have acknowledge what is written in Revelation twenty.

The events with Stephen are relevant to that discussion because that there saw that a change in Heaven.

Heaven is not the same anymore since two thousand years ago. 

And the fact that Jesus has died withing the scope of his mission to MAKE EVERYTHING NEW, The things on earth since that time have change, the earth is not the same anymore. 

And what about the underworld?  Has anything happened that we can say a the underworld has changed also.

The underworld is part of our world and it is in the Earth.

Jesus Christ has changed the underworld forever. 

Because things have change in the underworld BIG TIME.

 We have a New underworld, a New Earth and a New Heaven. 

When there is a change in Heaven as Stephen Stephen described it, this change cannot happen unless there is a change on Earth and in the Underworld.

Jesus in rev. ch.20 was heard to proclaimed I MAKE EVERYTHING NEW two thousand years ago. 

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, OneLight said:

Yes, it can mean abode, habitation or a mansion. It can also mean to dwell or to remain.  Both use G3538 where John 14:2 uses the word monai, John 14:23 uses monEn, slightly different, one being  a place and the other an action.

Shalom, OneLight.

Please understand that Greek has various forms for the parts of speech that are attached to the end (or beginning) of the root portion of a word. The word "monai" is the nominative, feminine, plural form of the word, while "moneen" is the accusative, feminine, singular form of the word. The nominative form is the subject of a sentence, and the accusative form is the direct object of the sentence. The root word, monee, is the nominative, feminine, singular form of the word. That is the form that is listed in Strong's as "G3438." In both cases, John 14:2 and 14:23, the word is a feminine noun.

BTW, you've found a transliteration scheme that uses a capital "E" for the Greek letter "eta," while I double the letter "e" as "ee" for an "eta." In Greek, the "eta" actually looks like a lower-case "n" with a long tail hanging down on the right side of the letter.

10 hours ago, OneLight said:

Now, do i really think I will have a huge house with a swimming pool, many room and bathrooms? No, I don't, but what I do believe is that it will not matter because just being in His presence all the time will overshadow anything else we see.  When I think of the dwelling place, no matter how small or large, I think of how beautiful it will be, not the size.  This is why I think they use the word mansion instead of a room or a simple dwelling as where ever He places us is always going to be beautiful to us.  Which, in your eye, is more glorious?  A mansion or a room?

The word simply means a "dwelling place." That may be a single room, as in a hotel, but it can also be a SUITE of rooms, as in a palace! You may or may not desire such things, but there's a theory that these "mansions/rooms" will be TROPHY ROOMS that will highlight all the ways that GOD stepped into your life and won the day for you!

Another theory is that these rooms may not be needed for basic necessities, but they may be used for celebrations and parties with your friends, old and new! Why do the rich need big houses, even mansions? They use them to HOST PARTIES! Big rooms allow for more people to congregate!

I also have a theory about out new bodies: We will still be able to eat food, but we will process what we eat and eliminate waste differently. This is evidenced by the fact that we will be able to eat of the Tree of Life, which is said to be growing within the New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:1-2). Also, Yeshua`was resurrected as His glorified body when we read,

Luke 24:41-43 (KJV)

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,

"Have ye here any meat (food)?"

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Also, we read in John's Gospel,

John 21:1-14 (KJV)

1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself. 2 There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples. 3 Simon Peter saith unto them,

"I go a fishing."

They say unto him,

"We also go with thee."

They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.

4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus. 5 Then Jesus saith unto them,

"Children, have ye any meat?" (I.e., "Did you catch anything?")

They answered him,

"No."

6 And he said unto them,

"Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find."

They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes. 7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter,

"It is the Lord!"

Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea. 8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.

9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread. 10 Jesus saith unto them,

Bring of the fish which ye have now caught."

11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.

12 Jesus saith unto them,

"Come and dine."

And none of the disciples durst (dared to) ask him, "Who art thou?" knowing that it was the Lord. 13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise. 

14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

I'm sure He didn't just stand there or sit there and watch them eat; He probably joined them!

And, in 1 Corinthians 15:39-49, we read,

1 Corinthians 15:39-49 (KJV)

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
44 It is sown a natural (Greek: psuchikos = air-breathing) body; it is raised a spiritual (Greek: pneumatikos = air-blasting) body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul (a living air-breather); the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (a life-giving wind)! 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual (pneumatikos), but that which is natural (psuchikos); and afterward that which is spiritual (pneumatikos). 

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven (out-of sky). 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly (Greek: ho epouranios = the-One of-above-the-sky), such are they also that are heavenly (Greek: hoi epouranioi = the-ones of-above-the-sky in plural). 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Greek: tou epouraniou = of-the-One of-above-the-sky).

"Glory" doesn't refer to a place; it means "a glow" or "a brightness," just as we see in verse 41 above, when Paul talked about the "glory" of the sun, moon, and stars. Furthermore, since Paul made it a point to say that "one star differs from another in glory," we too shall differ from one another in glory, just as the stars do. Some stars are brighter than others; some stars are of a different hue - a different color - than others. Some pulsate with light, while others are steadily bright.

Human beings currently give off heat radiation; that's why people can be seen by infrared cameras. I believe that, when we are resurrected and transformed as air-blasting bodies, we will give off light in the visible light spectrum! That's a higher energy. I believe that the food we will eat will be processed completely into energy and be given off as radiatant energy in the visivle light range!

I think Moses had an early experience with this when he talked with God directly upon the Mount Sinai! (See Exodus 34:29-35.) Our Lord's face was said to shine like the sun in the vision upon the Mount of Transfiguration! (See Matthew 17:2; Mark 9:2; Luke 9:29; 2 Peter 1:16-17.) And, Paul saw our Lord this way after His Resurrection! (See Acts 9:1-9; Acts 22:1-21; Acts 26:1-23.) Even John saw Him this way in his vision in Revelation 1:

Revelation 1:12-20 (KJV)

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me,

"Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

And, finally, John told us,

1 John (KJV)

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called "the sons of God": therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

[Retrobyter]

12 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Yes it is. 

I am not attempting to draw you into our discussion,  or to take sides, but consider what the prophets had described and Jesus about him self, and what the disciples proclaimed and teach. 

And then at the time of Stephens last moments before his death, the things he said. He said nothing is the same anymore the Messiah the Son of David is enthroned on the Heavenly Throne. God has approved him and has given everything to him.

 He reigns. 

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

Actually, what Stephen saw at his stoning was NOT the Messiah "enthroned on the Heavenly Throne," nor does He currently reign.

 

Acts 7:54-60 (KJV)

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said,

"Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God!"

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying,

"Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice,

"Lord, lay not this sin to their charge!"

And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

 

Yeshua` the Messiah Himself, the Son of man, said, 

 

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory (brightness): 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 "THEN shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

 

[Spiros]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:16 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Spiros.

I've done some extensive research on this, and I've arrived at quite different measurements. How do you derive a "furlong" (Greek: stadion) is 157.555... meters long or 0.0979 miles long? That's FAR shorter than your measurements should be.

 

 

Hello Retrobyter,

 

Below I quote from the article: “The so-called ‚Itinerary Stade‘ and the Accuracy of Eratosthenesʼ Measurement of the Earth” by Dmitry A. Shcheglov

 

I use the triple colon ::: to point out the omitted parts of the text. 

 

Quote

Most often Plinyʼs schoenus is defined through the Egyptian Royal cubit which has been firmly determined on the basis of archeological evidence as ca. 525 mm on average. Therefore, one Egyptian stade, equal to 400 Royal cubits, works out at 210 m, and, assuming 30 stades to the schoenus, one obtains a value of 6,300 m for the schoenus, and now following Pliny dividing that value by 40, this would make Eratosthenesʼ stade equal to 157.5 m. ::: There are also good reasons to suppose that around 900 B. C., the Egyptian Royal cubit was lengthened to ca. 533–534 mm. In that case, Eratosthenesʼ stade would amount to 159.9–160.2 m.

 

C. F. Lehmann-Haupt has defined Plinyʼs schoenus through the Babylonian cubit which he estimated at 495 mm. ::: Correspondingly, based on this dispersion of values, the length of Eratosthenesʼ stade would be 148.77–151.88 m.

 

Many scholars, starting with J.B.B. dʼAnville (1741), have defined the schoenus through the Roman mile. First, they resort to the metrological tables of Hero of Alexandria, one of the main sources on ancient metrology, according to which 1 schoenus is equal to 4 miles. Then, ignoring the fact that Pliny defined 1 schoenus as 5 miles, they combine this Heroʼs equation with Plinyʼs 1 schoenus = 40 Eratosthenesʼ stades, which makes 1 Eratosthenesʼ stades equal to 1/10 of a mile. Hence, provided that Heroʼs mile is the Roman one, Eratosthenesʼ stade works out at approximately 148 m.

 

Finally, O. Viedebantt has defined Plinyʼs schoenus and Eratosthenesʼ stade through the Roman foot using a completely different interpretation of Heroʼs metrological system. According to Hero, 1 mile = 5,400 ‚Italian‘ feet = 7.5 stades. Provided that Heroʼs ‚Italian‘ foot is the same as the Roman one firmly determined as ca. 296 mm, Heroʼs mile works out at 1,598.4 m (which is not attested by other written sources), hence 1 Heroʼs stade = 1,598.4 m / 7.5 = 213.12 m (which is quite close to the aforementioned ‚Egyptian‘ stade), 1 schoenus = 213.12 m × 30 = 6,393.6 m, and 1 Eratosthenesʼ stade (equal to 1/40 of a schoenus according to Pliny) = 159.84 m

 

Eratosthenes(276 BC –  195 BC) measured the Meridian of the Earth to be 252,000 Stadia. The presently measured size of Earth’s Meridian is 40,007,860 meters. If Eratosthenes was exactly correct this would mean that the Egyptian stadion or the Itinerary stadion had a length equal to 158.76 meters. This would mean that the size of New Jerusalem is 1,905,136 m or 1,184 British miles. According to the geodetic encoding I propose based on a 12,000 Stadium New Jerusalem centered at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre the size of the Stadion is 157.555 meters.

 

From:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_circumference#Eratosthenes

 

I quote:

Quote

Since 1 Egyptian stadion is equal to about 157.7 metres, the result is roughly 39,425 km, which is 1.5% less than the real circumference, 40,008 km.

 

We compute the isopsephy value of “twelve thousand” in Greek(dodeka khiliades):

 

ΔΩΔΕΚΑ ΧΙΛΙΑΔΕΣ = (4+800+4+5+20+1)+(600+10+30+10+1+4+5+200) = 1,694

 

We now add up the isopsephy values of the phrases “New Jerusalem”, “New Bethlehem”, and “New Nazareth” as “kaine Ierousalem”, “Kaine Bethleem”, and “Kaine Nazaret”:

 

ΚΑΙΝΗ ΙΕΡΟΥΣΑΛΗΜ + ΚΑΙΝΗ ΒΗΘΛΕΕΜ + ΚΑΙΝΗ ΝΑΖΑΡΕΤ = {(20+1+10+50+8)+(10+5+100+70+400+200+1+30+8+40)}+{(20+1+10+50+8)+(2+8+9+30+5+5+40)}+{(20+1+10+50+8)+(50+1+7+1+100+5+300)} = 1,694  

 

So does this 12,000 stadium cube in reality encompass the Holy Land as a whole from Bethlehem in the South to Nazareth in the North? This does seem to be the case.

 

Best Regards

Spiros

Edited December 30, 2021 by Spiros

[Your closest friendnt]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

Actually, what Stephen saw at his stoning was NOT the Messiah "enthroned on the Heavenly Throne," nor does He currently reign.

 

Acts 7:54-60 (KJV)

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said,

"Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God!"

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying,

"Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice,

"Lord, lay not this sin to their charge!"

And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

 

Yeshua` the Messiah Himself, the Son of man, said, 

 

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory (brightness): 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 "THEN shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

 

Shalom Retrobyter, I read the relevant scriptures in Acts, and this time looking at this passage in Acts need to focus what it is in there first and foremost.

This passage is asking us to recreate the scene as if we were the directors of a film crew giving instructions to the actors, preparing the moods and the thoughts of the people who took part in this event.

The main players are the Jews, they are the ones who iniciate the actions. 

****This is the relevant context. The Jews had errorneously believed that Jesus was from the Devil and that's why they kill him. Believing that God was with them.

Stephen earlier tried to persuade them and put on an argument to saw that they had made a mistake. 

And everything suddenly change when Stephen began to put the blame on them that they are not betters than their fathers who had kill the prophets in error. 

That's the time that everything change when Stephen began to condemn them. 

Acts 7:51-55 KJV

⁵¹ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

⁵² Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

⁵³ Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

⁵⁴ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

⁵⁵ But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

****

Then in verse 54, KJV

⁵⁴ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

and then in v.55, 56 KJV

 

⁵⁵ But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

⁵⁶ And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

and then the effect of those words on the Jews.

in v.57-60 

⁵⁷ Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

⁵⁸ And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

⁵⁹ And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

⁶⁰ And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. 

****

The time Stephen said: that Jesus is standing on the right hand of God, that was the time they decided to immediately stoned him, AND WHY?

Steven described Jesus being in the full Glory of the Father BEING IN THE FULNESS OF GOD'S GLORY 

IN HIS PRESENCE 

This is what drive the people who were present out of their minds it make them MAD, and why it had this effect on them? 

This description established that Jesus is the one whom Moses spoke about that God will sent someone after him, greater than him and told the people him to follow and do what he will tell them.

In other words DO NOT CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ME INSTANT OF HIM.

This will be disobeying God.

And the people knew that Moses was allowed to view a glimpse of God's Glory.

And it was reflected in his face which faded away.

Stephen described Jesus being a partaker of the Glory of God STANDING IN THE GLORY OF GOD AND RADIATING THE FULNESS OF GOD'S GLORY FOREVER.

GOD GIVING JESUS A GREATER HONOR THAN MOSES.

THE HONOR OF THE MESSIAH

God has given him everything he had ALL HIS THEOTIS and made him LORD OF LORDS, RULER OF ALL

PUTTING ALL POWERS UNDER HIS FEET.

STEPHEN knew that his destination at death in Jesus Christ it was to be with him immediately after death.

And that's why he said :

LORD JESUS recieved my Spirit. Knowing that Jesus Christ has inherited Haven for him and those who are his. 

He said: Lord Jesus recieve my Spirit and at the same time he Portrayed that God has made Jesus Christ Lord and Judge over all with his prayer asking Jesus to forgive those who stoned him, because they do not understand that they are in error. 

[Retrobyter]

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Shalom Retrobyter, I read the relevant scriptures in Acts, and this time looking at this passage in Acts need to focus what it is in there first and foremost.

This passage is asking us to recreate the scene as if we were the directors of a film crew giving instructions to the actors, preparing the moods and the thoughts of the people who took part in this event.

The main players are the Jews, they are the ones who iniciate the actions. 

****This is the relevant context. The Jews had errorneously believed that Jesus was from the Devil and that's why they kill him. Believing that God was with them.

Stephen earlier tried to persuade them and put on an argument to saw that they had made a mistake. 

And everything suddenly change when Stephen began to put the blame on them that they are not betters than their fathers who had kill the prophets in error. 

That's the time that everything change when Stephen began to condemn them. 

Acts 7:51-55 KJV

⁵¹ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

⁵² Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

⁵³ Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

⁵⁴ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

⁵⁵ But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

****

Then in verse 54, KJV

⁵⁴ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

and then in v.55, 56 KJV

 

⁵⁵ But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

⁵⁶ And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

and then the effect of those words on the Jews.

in v.57-60 

⁵⁷ Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

⁵⁸ And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

⁵⁹ And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

⁶⁰ And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. 

****

The time Stephen said: that Jesus is standing on the right hand of God, that was the time they decided to immediately stoned him, AND WHY?

Steven described Jesus being in the full Glory of the Father BEING IN THE FULNESS OF GOD'S GLORY 

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

I was in agreement with you (with minor differences) until this point. Don't add to the Scriptures what isn't there.

Using your own quote,

⁵⁵ But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

⁵⁶ And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Stephen was looking up steadfastly (in a resolutely or dutifully firm and unwavering manner) into the sky, and He saw the glory (Greek: doxa = brightness) of God and Jesus (Yeshua`) standing on the right hand (side) of God.

And, what he said was "Look! I see the skies opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand (side) of God!"

While He may indeed have been in the fulness of God's brightness, people read the phrase "BEING IN THE FULNESS OF GOD'S GLORY" in different ways, primarily because they don't understand "glory" nor do they understand "being in ... God's glory."

Also, being Christians, most people do not make an accurate distinction between Yeshua`, the Son of man, and God the Father.

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

IN HIS PRESENCE 

This is what drove the people who were present out of their minds; it make them MAD, and why it had this effect on them? 

This description established that Jesus is the one whom Moses spoke about that God would send someone after him, greater than him and told the people him to follow and do what he will tell them.

In other words DO NOT CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ME INSTANT (INSTEAD) OF HIM.

This will be disobeying God.

And the people knew that Moses was allowed to view a glimpse of God's Glory.

And it was reflected in his face which faded away.

Yes, the brightness of the glow on Moses' face did fade away with time, and you're right that Yeshua` was indeed the "prophet who would come after Moses." The Jews of Yeshua`s time just didn't make the connection that Yeshua` was the Prophet sent!

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Stephen described Jesus being a partaker of the Glory of God STANDING IN THE GLORY OF GOD AND RADIATING THE FULNESS OF GOD'S GLORY FOREVER.

GOD GIVING JESUS A GREATER HONOR THAN MOSES.

THE HONOR OF THE MESSIAH

This is all true, BUT one would make a mistake to read more into this than is written!

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

God has given him everything he had ALL HIS THEOTIS and made him LORD OF LORDS, RULER OF ALL

PUTTING ALL POWERS UNDER HIS FEET.

I believe you're referring to the Greek word "theotees" (pronounced "theh-OT-ace") which is translated as "deity" or "the Godhead" in Colossians 2:9. But, that's not what that verse says, either:

Colossians 2:8-12 (KJV)

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ (the Messiah). 9 For in him (the Messiah) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Note the distinctions that Paul made in this passage between the Messiah of God and God the Father. In each new phrase or clause, think about who's doing the action and who's receiving the action.

Furthermore, we read that God has NOT yet "put all things under His (the Messiah's) feet":

Hebrews 2:5-12 (KJV)

5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying,

"What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet." (Psalm 8:4-6)

For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became (it was fitting for) him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying,

"I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee." (Psalm 22:22)

Notice that in verse 8, the author of Hebrews said, "we don't see all things put under Him, yet." "NOT YET!" That's what His FUTURE reign is for!

And, for the record, the phrase "crowned with glory and honor" uses the Greek words "estefanoosas" in verse 7 and "estefanoomenon" in verse 9, both stemming from "stefano-oo" meaning "I crown (with a laurel wreath [stefanos]), adorn, or decorate." It does not mean "to crown as a king," which would be "diadeoo" ("I bind around") with a "diadeema" (a "royal diadem"), as in Revelation 19:12!

The Scriptures DO say, "all authority is given to the Messiah to put all things under His feet," but it doesn't say that He's done so, yet. The Scriptures say that He is the "Heir of all things," but it doesn't say that He's already inherited it, yet!

 

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

STEPHEN knew that his destination at death in Jesus Christ it was to be with him immediately after death.

And that's why he said :

LORD JESUS recieved my Spirit. Knowing that Jesus Christ has inherited Heaven for him and those who are his. 

He said: Lord Jesus recieve my Spirit and at the same time he Portrayed that God has made Jesus Christ Lord and Judge over all with his prayer asking Jesus to forgive those who stoned him, because they do not understand that they are in error. 

Again, Yeshua` our Master is TO BECOME the Master and Judge over all, but He is not there, yet!

These are important distinctions.

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, Spiros said:

 

Hello Retrobyter,

 

Below I quote from the article: “The so-called ‚Itinerary Stade‘ and the Accuracy of Eratosthenesʼ Measurement of the Earth” by Dmitry A. Shcheglov

 

I use the triple colon ::: to point out the omitted parts of the text. 

Quote

 

Most often Plinyʼs schoenus is defined through the Egyptian Royal cubit which has been firmly determined on the basis of archeological evidence as ca. 525 mm on average. Therefore, one Egyptian stade, equal to 400 Royal cubits, works out at 210 m, and, assuming 30 stades to the schoenus, one obtains a value of 6,300 m for the schoenus, and now following Pliny dividing that value by 40, this would make Eratosthenesʼ stade equal to 157.5 m. ::: There are also good reasons to suppose that around 900 B. C., the Egyptian Royal cubit was lengthened to ca. 533–534 mm. In that case, Eratosthenesʼ stade would amount to 159.9–160.2 m.

 

C. F. Lehmann-Haupt has defined Plinyʼs schoenus through the Babylonian cubit which he estimated at 495 mm. ::: Correspondingly, based on this dispersion of values, the length of Eratosthenesʼ stade would be 148.77–151.88 m.

 

Many scholars, starting with J.B.B. dʼAnville (1741), have defined the schoenus through the Roman mile. First, they resort to the metrological tables of Hero of Alexandria, one of the main sources on ancient metrology, according to which 1 schoenus is equal to 4 miles. Then, ignoring the fact that Pliny defined 1 schoenus as 5 miles, they combine this Heroʼs equation with Plinyʼs 1 schoenus = 40 Eratosthenesʼ stades, which makes 1 Eratosthenesʼ stades equal to 1/10 of a mile. Hence, provided that Heroʼs mile is the Roman one, Eratosthenesʼ stade works out at approximately 148 m.

 

Finally, O. Viedebantt has defined Plinyʼs schoenus and Eratosthenesʼ stade through the Roman foot using a completely different interpretation of Heroʼs metrological system. According to Hero, 1 mile = 5,400 ‚Italian‘ feet = 7.5 stades. Provided that Heroʼs ‚Italian‘ foot is the same as the Roman one firmly determined as ca. 296 mm, Heroʼs mile works out at 1,598.4 m (which is not attested by other written sources), hence 1 Heroʼs stade = 1,598.4 m / 7.5 = 213.12 m (which is quite close to the aforementioned ‚Egyptian‘ stade), 1 schoenus = 213.12 m × 30 = 6,393.6 m, and 1 Eratosthenesʼ stade (equal to 1/40 of a schoenus according to Pliny) = 159.84 m

 

 

 

Eratosthenes(276 BC –  195 BC) measured the Meridian of the Earth to be 252,000 Stadia. The presently measured size of Earth’s Meridian is 40,007,860 meters. If Eratosthenes was exactly correct this would mean that the Egyptian stadion or the Itinerary stadion had a length equal to 158.76 meters. This would mean that the size of New Jerusalem is 1,905,136 m or 1,184 British miles. According to the geodetic encoding I propose based on a 12,000 Stadium New Jerusalem centered at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre the size of the Stadion is 157.555 meters.

 

From:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_circumference#Eratosthenes

 

I quote:

 

We compute the isopsephy value of “twelve thousand” in Greek(dodeka khiliades):

 

ΔΩΔΕΚΑ ΧΙΛΙΑΔΕΣ = (4+800+4+5+20+1)+(600+10+30+10+1+4+5+200) = 1,694

 

We now add up the isopsephy values of the phrases “New Jerusalem”, “New Bethlehem”, and “New Nazareth” as “kaine Ierousalem”, “Kaine Bethleem”, and “Kaine Nazaret”:

 

ΚΑΙΝΗ ΙΕΡΟΥΣΑΛΗΜ + ΚΑΙΝΗ ΒΗΘΛΕΕΜ + ΚΑΙΝΗ ΝΑΖΑΡΕΤ = {(20+1+10+50+8)+(10+5+100+70+400+200+1+30+8+40)}+{(20+1+10+50+8)+(2+8+9+30+5+5+40)}+{(20+1+10+50+8)+(50+1+7+1+100+5+300)} = 1,694  

 

So does this 12,000 stadium cube in reality encompass the Holy Land as a whole from Bethlehem in the South to Nazareth in the North? This does seem to be the case.

 

Best Regards

Spiros

Shalom, Spiros.

You're reporting interesting numbers; however, Eratosthenes is making a LOT of faulty assumptions.

Today, we understand that ...
the circumference of the earth at its equator is 24,901.461 miles. This give us a radius of the earth from its center to the equator of 3,963.1906 miles.
The earth's polar circumference is 24,859.734 miles, and its "radius" (b or the co-vertex) from the earth's center to either pole is 3,949.9028 miles.

Starting with the assumption that any plane through the earth's polar diameter is an ellipse, these values can give us an integral formula to calculate any position along the lattitudinal distance from the equator to the pole with a low degree of error. From that position, one can find the new "equatorial" radius perpendicular to the center of the earth's polar diameter at any lattitude, calculating the circle for a slice through the earth parallel to the equator. This will give us the correct value of the distance between any two longitudinal lines at that lattitude, its meridian, by dividing that new circle by 360 degrees and again by 60 minutes.

However, the values for the stadios must be derived from John's perspective on the Isle of Patmos to be sensible. Roman mile markers are all over Europe and Asia Minor, and the measurements are defined in certain ways: For instance, the stadios (Roman stadium) or stade for short is defined as a Roman trek of 600 podes and 1/8th of a Roman mile, and a Roman pode was a step of an infantry soldier.

Finally, don't go throwing gematria into your calculations. These are false numbers that have no meaning to the text or to reality. They're no better than superstition. In fact, ANY number without a unit is worthless. They add nothing to the conversation.

For example "4,000" means nothing. "4,000" of WHAT? However, when one adds the unit, like "4,000 feet," NOW we can actually measure this and see the length. It could be 4,000 of ANY of the primary base units or their combinations, like "grams" for "mass" or "seconds" for "time," or "meters per second" for "velocity."

However, numbers without units, like gematria provides, are open to the imagination and the whim of the interpreter! Anyone can use them for anything that they imagine has some "value." It's a distraction, a dead-end street.

P.S. - Bethlehem ("Beit-Lechem" = "House of Bread") is NOT the southernmost city in Israel, nor is "Nazareth" ("Natsaret" = "Branch") the northernmost city in Israel. Someone has obviously picked these from Yeshua`s life, but again, there's no reason for doing so.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add another thought

[Spiros]

19 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Spiros.

You're reporting interesting numbers; however, Eratosthenes is making a LOT of faulty assumptions.

Today, we understand that ...
the circumference of the earth at its equator is 24,901.461 miles. This give us a radius of the earth from its center to the equator of 3,963.1906 miles.
The earth's polar circumference is 24,859.734 miles, and its "radius" (b or the co-vertex) from the earth's center to either pole is 3,949.9028 miles.

Starting with the assumption that any plane through the earth's polar diameter is an ellipse, these values can give us an integral formula to calculate any position along the lattitudinal distance from the equator to the pole with a low degree of error. From that position, one can find the new "equatorial" radius perpendicular to the center of the earth's polar diameter at any lattitude, calculating the circle for a slice through the earth parallel to the equator. This will give us the correct value of the distance between any two longitudinal lines at that lattitude, its meridian, by dividing that new circle by 360 degrees and again by 60 minutes.

However, the values for the stadios must be derived from John's perspective on the Isle of Patmos to be sensible. Roman mile markers are all over Europe and Asia Minor, and the measurements are defined in certain ways: For instance, the stadios (Roman stadium) or stade for short is defined as a Roman trek of 600 podes and 1/8th of a Roman mile, and a Roman pode was a step of an infantry soldier.

Finally, don't go throwing gematria into your calculations. These are false numbers that have no meaning to the text or to reality. They're no better than superstition. In fact, ANY number without a unit is worthless. They add nothing to the conversation.

For example "4,000" means nothing. "4,000" of WHAT? However, when one adds the unit, like "4,000 feet," NOW we can actually measure this and see the length. It could be 4,000 of ANY of the primary base units or their combinations, like "grams" for "mass" or "seconds" for "time," or "meters per second" for "velocity."

However, numbers without units, like gematria provides, are open to the imagination and the whim of the interpreter! Anyone can use them for anything that they imagine has some "value." It's a distraction, a dead-end street.

P.S. - Bethlehem ("Beit-Lechem" = "House of Bread") is NOT the southernmost city in Israel, nor is "Nazareth" ("Natsaret" = "Branch") the northernmost city in Israel. Someone has obviously picked these from Yeshua`s life, but again, there's no reason for doing so.

Hello Retrobyter,

 

We know this information because science has evolved the last 2260 years from Eratosthenes time. I thus don’t  think it is fair to say that he made faulty assumptions. I quote from Wikipedia:

Quote

He is best known for being the first person known to calculate the circumference of the Earth, which he did by using the extensive survey results he could access in his role at the Library; his calculation was remarkably accurate. He was also the first to calculate Earth's axial tilt, which also proved to have remarkable accuracy. He created the first global projection of the world, incorporating parallels and meridians based on the available geographic knowledge of his era.

The Romans adopted the Greek Ionian foot. It’s length was 296 mm. The Roman cubit was thus the Ionian cubit which had a size of 444 mm. By taking multiples they came up with the Roman mile. I am not disputing the fact that the Romans used a mile measure. A great number of experts have proposed that a short stadion measure was used in the Roman Kingdom at the time of Apostle John. My mathematical\geodetical calculations on Apostle John’s  12,000 stadion New Jerusalem idea proves that these experts are or were correct(right on the spot). The only question that arises regards the size of the cubit being used. Did John use the Roman/Ionian cubit, did he use the geographic/Parthenon cubit, or did he use a Mesopotamian cubit. It is less probable that other cubit lengths were used. But this is another subject. It relates to the walls of New Jerusalem.

At first glance one would think that it would be better if it read “twelve thousand furlongs”, but remember: New Jerusalem relates to the 12 Apostles plus Christ adding up to 12,000 units. This is a number with no units of measure. No furlongs, no nothing. Therefore 12,000 is a more complete identification of New Jerusalem. Take another look:

 

Revelation 7.5

1550 Stephanus New Testament

εκ φυλης ιουδα ιβ χιλιαδες εσφραγισμενοι

New King James Version (NKJV)

of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;

The isopsephy value of “12 thousand”:

 

ιβ χιλιαδες = ΙΒ ΧΙΛΙΑΔΕΣ = 12 ΧΙΛΙΑΔΕΣ  = 12 + (600+10+30+10+1+4+5+200) = 12+860 = 872

 

We compute the isopsephy value of Jerusalem in Greek with the article:

 

Η ΙΕΡΟΥΣΑΛΗΜ = (8)+(10+5+100+70+400+200+1+30+8+40) = 872

 

I would beg to disagree with you here. I’m sure that in the heart of all Christians who believe our triadic God, that the three settlements where Jesus was conceived, born, crucified, resurrected, and where he ascended onto heaven are especially important.

In this latitude range though we do have Bethany where Jesus was baptized.     

How to define New Jerusalem. Use:

 

1. Orthodox Church of the Annunciation - Nazareth

2. Church of the Nativity - Bethlehem

3. Holy Monastery of Saint John the Baptist - Bethany

4.  Church of the Holy Sepulchre – Jerusalem

 

4 defines the size of the New Jerusalem cube. But you average out the size of “New Nazareth”, “New Bethlehem”, “New Bethany”, and “New Jerusalem” you can compute the position of New Jerusalem in Greece. If you use the Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem triad you obtain a second solution.

 

Best Regards

Spiros

Edited January 1, 2022 by Spiros

[Spiros]

On 12/12/2021 at 8:43 PM, JohnR7 said:

The new Jerusalem is the entire Arab Continental plate. 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles. This gives them mineral rights and it also gives them satellite space as well as air space. This is the land that God gave to Abraham and his descendants. Even those who are adopted into the family of Abraham. Paul talk about how we are branches grafted into the tree. I believe that I will have a condo in the New Jerusalem for when I go there to visit. For me and my friends. I believe our friends will be given their own room in our mansion so they can feel at home when they come to visit us. If you are famous like a singer your mansion will be the size of a city to accommodate all of their fans.  

Hello JohnR7,

 

I find the placement of the Kaaba at Mecca – Saudi Arabia -  interesting. It has the approximate shape of a cube. Below I show that using the sunken in the Earth cube geodetic methodology we can show that the New Jerusalem, New Bethlehem, and New Mecca square faces relate to the position of Mecca in relation to places in the Holy Land like Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth, and Sepphoris.

 

https://i.postimg.cc/fyWnXrCx/New-Bethlehem-Mecca3.jpg

 

Regarding Sepphoris(Ancient Greek: Σέπφωρις) I quote from Wikipedia:

 

Quote

In Late Antiquity, it was believed to be the birthplace of Mary, mother of Jesus, and the village where Saints Anna and Joachim are often said to have resided, where today a 5th-century basilica is excavated at the site honouring the birth of Mary.

 

Best Regards

Spiros