A Said-faith

[WordSword]

I believe it’s not commonly understood that an “apostate” is one who only professes to be in the faith but in truth has yet to be saved, i.e. reborn. Of all who profess to “confess Jesus is Lord” (Ro 10:9), there will always be some (“a little leaven”) who only “honor Me with their lips (confess); but their heart is far from Me (Mat 15:8). They “profess they know God; but in works they deny Him” (Tit 1:16). These are those James wrote of that “may say you have faith,” but “have no works” (Jas 2:17, 18).

No “works,” or in other words no “fruit of the Spirit!” Works, which is the Sprit’s fruit, cannot exist within man apart from faith, for faith always manifests works, thus all faith-professors will inevitably see for themselves whether or not they are in the faith by their lifestyle (Mat 12:33); and by the Spirit (Rom 8:16).

Apostates, for long periods of time can maintain the “tare” position, even “until the harvest” (Mat 13:30); and it is this hypocrisy that outwardly appears to be in the Body of Christ (Mat 24:24), but eventually is seen by all. These are the ones Scripture writes of, that fall or depart only from the doctrine of Grace, never having received the truth of Grace (2Ti 3:7; 4:3, 4); who have only received its knowledge but not its truth imparted (Heb 10:26), which is “the engrafted Word, which is able to save your souls” (Jas 1:21).

I think one of the most encouraging confirmations of being in Christ that can be enjoyed is being ever aware that “God works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13). This is inwardly manifested by noticing the prevalence of the ongoing desire or “will” to put God first, which aids us in repeatedly “putting off the old man” as it shows itself in its erroneous tempting’s, of which we need not to be “anxious” (Phl 4:6), but rather “cast” whatever it concerns us with “on Him” (1Pe 5:7), entrusting all to Him!

[Arrabon]

3 hours ago, WordSword said:

Apostates, for long periods of time can maintain the “tare” position

@WordSword

I could have marked this with a thumbs up, but I like what you said so much, I wanted to say thank you and comment.

I had a friend I thought was in the lord from childhood, and always did and said the right things for the 12 years I knew him, but one day, and then another, and then another, he started letting his guard down and slowly removing his mask that we all talk about.

It was a "SHOCK" how quickly things fell apart, and he became someone I didn't know anymore.

It was equally shocking to his wife who was just stunned when she witnessed his "MELTDOWN" and his attack on me.

It still hurts, not just for me but him and his wife who had married him not too long before all that believing he was a follower of Christ.

Sometimes life can be a "sucker-punch" we have to get over. That was years ago and the thoughts of it still haunt me, and left me wondering why and how?

Edited May 18, 2021 by Arrabon

[WordSword]

1 hour ago, Arrabon said:

@WordSword

I could have marked this with a thumbs up, but I like what you said so much, I wanted to say thank you and comment.

I had a friend I thought was in the lord from childhood, and always did and said the right things for the 12 years I knew him, but one day, and then another, and then another, he started letting his guard down and slowly removing his mask that we all talk about.

It was a "SHOCK" how quickly things fell apart, and he became someone I didn't know anymore.

It was equally shocking to his wife who was just stunned when she witnessed his "MELTDOWN" and his attack on me.

It still hurts, not just for me but him and his wife who had married him not too long before all that believing he was a follower of Christ.

Sometimes life can be a "sucker-punch" we have to get over. That was years ago and the thoughts of it still haunt me, and left me wondering why and how?

Hi and appreciate the moving reply! Yep, gotta keep putting everything on God (1Pe 5:7).

[Sower]

10 hours ago, WordSword said:

I believe it’s not commonly understood that an “apostate” is one who only professes to be in the faith but in truth has yet to be saved, i.e. reborn.

Many years back our church hosted a guest speaker/evangelist who preached several nights.
On the first night he revealed he had been a preacher for about fifteen years I believe.
And then he had been saved for six years.
His sermon was then about what you are talking about, WordSword,
those who profess belief but have never been saved.
He had courage.

[R. Hartono]

Too many people praise God with their lips only, but share their curses outside churches.

[Willa]

10 hours ago, WordSword said:

I believe it’s not commonly understood that an “apostate” is one who only professes to be in the faith but in truth has yet to be saved, i.e. reborn. Of all who profess to “confess Jesus is Lord” (Ro 10:9), there will always be some (“a little leaven”) who only “honor Me with their lips (confess); but their heart is far from Me (Mat 15:8). They “profess they know God; but in works they deny Him” (Tit 1:16). These are those James wrote of that “may say you have faith,” but “have no works” (Jas 2:17, 18).

 

2Th 2:3. Let no man deceive.—R.V. “beguile or cheat you.” A falling away.—Lit. “the apostasy,” a desertion from the army of God; a recantation of faith in Christ. Our Master foretold that when “iniquity shall abound the love of the many shall be blown cool”. (Preacher's Homiletical )

2Th 2:3 AMP   Let no one in any way deceive or entrap you, for that day will not come unless the   apostasy comes first [that is, the great rebellion, the abandonment of the faith by professed Christians], and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction [the Antichrist, the one who is destined to be destroyed], [Dan 7:25; Dan 8:25; 1Ti 4:1]

So apostasy is defined as a falling away, rebellion, an abandoning of the faith by professing Christians. This doesn't necessarily follow that they have never been fruitful.  They have allowed their faith to grow cold.  Perhaps it is unrepented sin or weeds choking it out.  Perhaps it is the cares of the world.  It implies that fruit has been produced in some people but has never ripened.  They have not gone on to maturity.

Luk 8:11  "Now [the meaning of] the parable is this: The seed is the word of God [concerning eternal salvation].

Luk 8:12  Those beside the road are the people who have heard; then the devil comes and takes the message [of God] away from their hearts, so that they will not believe [in Me as the Messiah] and be saved.

Luk 8:13  Those on the rocky soil are the people who, when they hear, receive and welcome the word with joy; but these have no firmly grounded root. They believe for a while, and in time of trial andtemptation they fall away [from Me and abandon their faith].

Luk 8:14  The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, but as they go on their way they are suffocated with the anxieties and riches and pleasures of this life, and they bring no fruit to maturity.

Luk 8:15  But as for that seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word with a good and noble heart, and hold on to it tightly, and bear fruit with patience.

 

[WordSword]

8 hours ago, Sower said:

Many years back our church hosted a guest speaker/evangelist who preached several nights.
On the first night he revealed he had been a preacher for about fifteen years I believe.
And then he had been saved for six years.
His sermon was then about what you are talking about, WordSword,
those who profess belief but have never been saved.
He had courage.

Hi and appreciate the applicable reply! Yes, when Scripture writes to "confess" or profess "the Lord Jesus" it is in the sense that one is being genuine about it. and not just nominal.

[WordSword]

7 hours ago, Willa said:

2Th 2:3. Let no man deceive.—R.V. “beguile or cheat you.” A falling away.—Lit. “the apostasy,” a desertion from the army of God; a recantation of faith in Christ. Our Master foretold that when “iniquity shall abound the love of the many shall be blown cool”. (Preacher's Homiletical )

Hi, and thanks for the instructional reply! Just wanted to mention something that is not a common understanding among believers. When Scripture writes to "confess the Lord Jesus" (Ro 10:9, 10) it designs the intention that we are confessing genuinely and not just nominally in words. Thus one can fall or depart from the doctrine of Christ, but not from the import of what it teaches, if it is received.

I think Heb 10:26 is a good example of what I'm trying to say: "If we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth." To me the sense here is that one is only receiving or learning the knowledge of the truth, but not receiving what it teaches, hence the continuance of intentionally (willfully) sinning.

[WordSword]

12 hours ago, Willa said:

So apostasy is defined as a falling away, rebellion, an abandoning of the faith by professing Christians. This doesn't necessarily follow that they have never been fruitful.  

It's my understanding that "unfruitful" means no fruit, and no fruit is because not being connected (abide) to the Vine. Those not abiding is because not being saved, and they get burned up like dead branches.

[Arrabon]

18 hours ago, Sower said:

Many years back our church hosted a guest speaker/evangelist who preached several nights.
On the first night he revealed he had been a preacher for about fifteen years I believe.
And then he had been saved for six years.
His sermon was then about what you are talking about, WordSword,
those who profess belief but have never been saved.
He had courage.

@Sower

I can relate to your experience.

I was at a church for 6 years, and the pastor and I were talking, as I knew him pretty well, until he confided that he was never called to be a preacher, but he chose to be a pastor, and IT WAS JUST A JOB . Yeah, I was shocked too.

I found another church shortly after that.

The next church I went to, the pastor admitted in front of the whole church during a message, that he never prayed unless he was at church during his message.

I was off and searching once again.