Salvation is of the Lord

[Waggles]

John 6

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus answered them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. 46 Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father

[Waggles]

John 6

60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him.

65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

[Waggles]

John 12

31 Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out;

32 and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” 33 He said this to show by what death he was to die.

34 The crowd answered him, “We have heard from the law that the Christ remains for ever. How can you say that the Son of man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of man?” 35 Jesus said to them, “The light is with you for a little longer. Walk while you have the light, lest the darkness overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes.

36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.”

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Waggles said:

John 12

31 Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out;

32 and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” 33 He said this to show by what death he was to die.

34 The crowd answered him, “We have heard from the law that the Christ remains for ever. How can you say that the Son of man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of man?” 35 Jesus said to them, “The light is with you for a little longer. Walk while you have the light, lest the darkness overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes.

36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.”

Since, as earlier verses you quoted proved, the Father's drawing to Jesus is effectual and every one drawn will raised up at the last day, this drawing is different and intended to show the general scope of the drawing, rather than being to do with individuals.

1) This drawing is by Jesus, not the Father.

2) The word "men", in verse 32, is added by the translators and is not in the Greek.

3) The scope of the drawing is in view here (i.e. Jews and Gentiles, not Jews only), which is the reason for "all", in verse 32.

4) If it meant that every individual would be drawn, then that would lead to the heresy of Universalism, since, as we've seen, God's drawing is effectual.

John 12:31-36 (NKJV)

31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."

33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

34    The people answered Him, "We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, 'The Son of Man must be lifted up'? Who is this Son of Man?"

35    Then Jesus said to them, "A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going.

36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them. 

The NKJV translators have added "peoples", instead of "men", in verse 32, to show that it's dealing with scope and not individuals; however, leaving it at "all", without adding any words is also fine, if ambiguous.
 

Edited June 1, 2021 by David1701
missing word

[Waggles]

@David1701

John 12:32

(NENT)  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto myself.

(LITV)  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.

What is of doctrinal interest is that Jesus tells the people of his time and us who read this afterwards that - 

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.  And again in verse 65 Jesus states “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

In chapter 12 Jesus directly claims that he is able to draw all to himself. For me this is a very strong indication of the Trinity with the Father and the Son being one in purpose (our salvation). It is what Jesus claims elsewhere that the Father and I are one. If you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Waggles

[David1701]

17 hours ago, Waggles said:

@David1701

John 12:32

(NENT)  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto myself.

(LITV)  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.

What is of doctrinal interest is that Jesus tells the people of his time and us who read this afterwards that - 

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.  And again in verse 65 Jesus states “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

In chapter 12 Jesus directly claims that he is able to draw all to himself. For me this is a very strong indication of the Trinity with the Father and the Son being one in purpose (our salvation). It is what Jesus claims elsewhere that the Father and I are one. If you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Jesus does not claim that he is merely able to draw all to himself.  He say that he WILL draw all to himself.

We have already seen that God's drawing is effectual, so we are left with two possible conclusions, from John 12:32.

1) That every person, without exception, will be drawn to Jesus and thereby saved (this leads to the heresy of Universalism).

2) That "all" here means "all without distinction" (i.e. all kinds of people, not all individuals).

[JustClay]

7 hours ago, David1701 said:

Jesus does not claim that he is merely able to draw all to himself.  He say that he WILL draw all to himself.

We have already seen that God's drawing is effectual, so we are left with two possible conclusions, from John 12:32.

1) That every person, without exception, will be drawn to Jesus and thereby saved (this leads to the heresy of Universalism).

2) That "all" here means "all without distinction" (i.e. all kinds of people, not all individuals).

Hi @David1701... Do you think Jesus could possibly mean that at some point every knee will bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord?  

Romans 14:10-12  (NKJV)

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Of course we know what He will say to some of those who do profess to know Him:

Matthew 7:21-23  (NKJV)

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[David1701]

16 hours ago, JustClay said:

Hi @David1701... Do you think Jesus could possibly mean that at some point every knee will bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord?  

Romans 14:10-12  (NKJV)

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Of course we know what He will say to some of those who do profess to know Him:

Matthew 7:21-23  (NKJV)

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

Some knees will bow in faith and love and some tongues confess in faith and love (the elect) - the rest will do it in unbelief, before they are sent off to hell.

[JustClay]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

Some knees will bow in faith and love and some tongues confess in faith and love (the elect) - the rest will do it in unbelief, before they are sent off to hell.

I don’t believe any tongue will be able to confess in unbelief on that Day—because everything they had faith in before that Day will have been destroyed. You’re definitely right, though, that some confessions will be made in fear and trembling rather than love.
 

[TheBlade]

"God uses Scripture" could we not say God uses His word? Lol I don't know. For me over wha 50 years ago in a Baptist Church my mom MADE me go to.. I would sit there and ..sad.. keep flipping off the pastor. Didn't have a easy upbringing. The only other thing I remember very clearly is this Baptist preacher talking about HELL! That next week I dreamed about it.. and next Sunday went up front  was on my knees and just started crying. Not a Baptist but I still have that little book "The four Spiritual Laws" they gave me. 

Im sure he had been reading the word.. not what I remembered though haha. Praise GOD Christ will in now way cast anyone out no matter how they come to Him..drawn by the holy Spirit. "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." <---fall on my knees praise you Father.. thank you