Who Was The Beast In The Book Of Revelation?

[abcdef]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:31 PM, WilliamL said:

Monophysitism: Christ did not have a dual nature.

Very true.

On 7/11/2021 at 6:31 PM, WilliamL said:

Problems with that doctrine are numerous. Beginning with, Jesus often addressed the Father as being another one from Himself.

Jesus said that He was able to lay down His life and take it up again, John 10:18.

So Jesus is able to die and live again.

But in this concept of understanding that Jesus is the Father and that Jesus can still be separate, it is a different facet of God.

Think of it like this, God is the ocean and you are standing on an island.

You can't tell where the ocean begins or where it ends. Everywhere you look is vast and endless. We have no concept of how deep it is, all we can see is the surface. What goes on under the surface with it's creatures, valleys, and mountains, is beyond our perception.

Now take a glass and dip out some water. The water is the ocean and the ocean is in the water. The same, but now separate. Then pour the water back into the ocean. Where did it go? You now cannot tell where the ocean is and the water that you poured into it. Dip the glass again and pour it out again, you will have the same result. Rev 5:3-6, 6, "in the midst of the throne"

So understand that Jesus is able to take up His life and lay it down again, but in this concept it involves becoming one with the Father and becoming separate from the Father. Sort of being able to have a separate consciousness or a unified consciousness at will.

After we leave the bodies our spirits may not be restricted from blending. Eph 5:30-32, if you can accept it.

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In 1 Cor 15:28 says that in the end He will "subject" Himself to the Father so that the Father will be "All in All".

This seems to imply that Jesus unites with the Father again.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 6:31 PM, WilliamL said:

In this we agree.

If the Dan. 2 statue is continual through the centuries, then the time line of the iron is probably centuries.

If the iron timeline that begins in 63 BC and rules over the people of Israel is continual, then only one nation can fit this profile.

Who was the iron nation in the time of John the Baptist?

Who was the iron nation 1000 yrs ago?

Who was the iron nation 300 yrs ago?

Who was the iron nation 70 yrs ago?

Who is the iron nation right now?

Now think about the beast in Rev., this beast nation must fit in to the stature somewhere.

But it can only fit during the time of the iron.

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The 7 times are not 7 years, they are the time of the statue.

The first 3 1/2 times is Babylon until the great scattering of Israel unto the gentile nations, Dan 12:7.

The second 3 1/2 times is from 70 AD until Jerusalem was restored in 1967. The Rev is showing the 2nd 3 1/2 times and the end of the statue when Jerusalem is restored.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 6:31 PM, WilliamL said:

Daniel 10:13, 20-21 speak of the spiritual sarim of Persia, Greece, and Israel. So it is no real stretch to accept that there are like ones who ruled/rule over Chaldeo-Babylon and Rome.

Sure, I can see that.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 6:31 PM, WilliamL said:

For those in the know, these are the 70 heavenly rulers over the nations in the councils of heaven. Job 1 and Psalm 82, among other scriptures, speak of them.

Sorry but I didn't see any reference to 70 heavenly rulers in Job 1, or Psalm 82. 

 

[abcdef]

On 7/11/2021 at 12:03 AM, The Light said:

As I said, you would not understand verse 8. If you did understand verse 8, you would understand why the beast is Nimrod.

Maybe the verses of Jerimiah 10 could help you understand the verses of Isaiah 14.

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

I really don't think you understand what is going on in the world. The world is looking for their savior and it is not Jesus the Christ. Maybe this will help.

The Eye.

Maybe this will help.

Left eye

Maybe this will help.

Right eye

How is it that the world knows what is going to happen, and are looking for their false savior and most Christians are unable to see what is coming on the world.

Nimrod is the Antichrist and the 1st beast of Revelation.

So far, you have no substantial scriptural evidence that the beast is Nimrod.

I can't read your mind about what you believe or what you are thinking.

Try explaining yourself instead of making us guess what you are thinking. 

 

[The Light]

On 7/13/2021 at 12:06 AM, abcdef said:

So far, you have no substantial scriptural evidence that the beast is Nimrod.

I can't read your mind about what you believe or what you are thinking.

Try explaining yourself instead of making us guess what you are thinking. 

 

I like to let the scripture speak for itself. For instance, I could post this verse:

Gen 7

9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

It's pretty clear that Noah and the animals entered the ark and 7 days later the flood was upon the earth. Even with the scripture telling us exactly what happened, many do not understand these simple two sentences. I guess I get tired of spoon feeding because even with the scripture being so clear...............

That said, I have provided scriptural evidence that the beast is Nimrod. The scripture speaks for itself. All we need to do is read what it says and believe what it says.

Isa 14

3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

Reading in verse 3, we should be able to determine that there will come a time when Israel will be at rest. Certainly, that day has not occurred yet. In verse 4 we read that the proverb is taken against the king of Babylon. This is one of the terms that describes the Antichrist along with the Assyrian. In case you don't know, Assyria worshipped Nimrod as the god Molech. He is the only known person that was both the King of Babylon and an Assyrian. 

In verse 7 we read that the whole earth is at rest. That certainly hasn't happened and will not happen until the return of Christ. In verse 8 we see that the fir trees rejoice and the cedars of Lebanon, saying since the King of Babylon is laid down, no fellers have come against them. Currently do we see fir trees being cut down? What customs in Jeremiah 10 are vain? Cutting a tree from the forest and decking it with silver and gold. The trees are fastened so they will not move. 

Jer 10

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

The fir trees are cut every year and decorated in most houses. The fir tree represents Nimrod. When the king of Babylon, Nimrod is laid down, the fir tree will no longer be cut. Just Google search "Nimrod Christmas Tree" and the results should be clear.

[WilliamL]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:29 PM, abcdef said:

Jesus said that He was able to lay down His life and take it up again, John 10:18.

Correction: Jesus said that He was able to lay down his soul/psuche and take it up again. Big difference between life and soul. Jesus could not have laid down His life if He tried, because then all Creation would have ceased, and His Father would have been very upset.

Another misunderstanding (at minimum) caused by a faulty translation.

[Justin Adams]

10 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Correction: Jesus said that He was able to lay down his soul/psuche and take it up again. Big difference between life and soul. Jesus could not have laid down His life if He tried, because then all Creation would have ceased, and His Father would have been very upset.

Another misunderstanding (at minimum) caused by a faulty translation.

Wrong again. That is a Gnostic mantra.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Riverwalker]

6 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Correction: Jesus said that He was able to lay down his soul/psuche and take it up again. Big difference between life and soul. Jesus could not have laid down His life if He tried, because then all Creation would have ceased, and His Father would have been very upset.

Another misunderstanding (at minimum) caused by a faulty translation.

Jesus laid down His physical life.  Physical life and spiritual (soulish) life are twop different things

His body died, His Spirit lived on

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

[WilliamL]

11 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Wrong again. That is a Gnostic mantra.

Wrong. Because the word in question is psuche, not zoe.

And an unsubstantiated accusation of Gnosticism is against the TOS.

Edited July 15, 2021 by WilliamL

[Justin Adams]

8 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Wrong. Because the word in question is psuche, not zoe.

And an unsubstantiated accusation of Gnosticism is against the TOS.

The Gnostic thought said Yeshua only 'died' in spirit and not body. Also, read about gnostic thought too.

At every turn, it seems, the main object of Gnosticism was to twist the nature of Christ. Some Gnostics believed that Jesus was a man, but that Christ entered into Jesus when He was baptized and left Him right before He died. Other Gnostics believed that Jesus did not really die - because, after all, if He died, then He was not really God. Others believed that He could not have been perfect and sinless because He created matter, which Gnostics believed to be evil. And there were also those who believed that Jesus Christ was a created being - an idea that is still affecting the fringes of the church of God today.

So if we want to counter Gnosticism, we must begin with the truth of Jesus Christ. Paul emphasizes this in verses 9-10: Jesus was the fullness of the divine nature in bodily form, and He is the head, the leader, the sovereign, of every principality and power. Though the Gnostics in their various views always twisted or denied some aspect of the nature and role of Jesus Christ, these truths brought out by the apostle are bedrock beliefs for true Christians.

Also foundational to countering Gnosticism is the truth that Jesus brought. To combat the false knowledge that threatens to plunder our spiritual riches, we must take the Bible as the complete and inspired Word of God, against which we can test any concept, tradition, doctrine, or philosophy, no matter how good it sounds on the surface. Gnostics would not readily accept the Bible as God's inspired revelation, or if they did, they also held that other ancient, secret writings were on par with Scripture, and could be trusted to provide greater insight.

In addition, Gnostics were also avid proponents of "progressive revelation," the belief that God is continuing to reveal His will to mankind, but with the implication that Holy Scripture is not as important as hearing directly from the spirit world. Thus, some today, while not entirely rejecting the Bible, believe that "God" is personally revealing things to them - things which often contradict what He has already given to mankind in the His written Word.

David C. Grabbe
Whatever Happened to Gnosticism? Part Two: Defining Gnosticism

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/3223/Jesus-Christ-as-Flesh-and-Blood-Human.htm

Edited July 15, 2021 by Justin Adams

[WilliamL]

9 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Jesus laid down His physical life.  Physical life and spiritual (soulish) life are two different things

His body died, His Spirit lived on

The body dies when the soul departs from it. Body, soul, spirit, three different things, not two:

1 Thes. 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus laid down His soul, just as prophesied in Isaiah:

Isaiah 53:12 ...He poured out His soul unto death

[WilliamL]

15 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

20 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Wrong. Because the word in question is psuche, not zoe.

And an unsubstantiated accusation of Gnosticism is against the TOS.

The Gnostic thought said Yeshua only 'died' in spirit and not body. Also, read about gnostic thought too.

This explanation does not support the accusation of Gnosticism leveled against me. Bait and switch: I said nothing about dying in spirit or body; the sole issue I raised concerned soul vs. life. Which I then backed up with the quote from Isaiah 53.

Want to try again?