FreeGrace Posted April 13, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,461 Content Per Day: 8.10 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 hour ago, ChristB4us said: I leave it to God to cause the increase, brother. Those who don't are idiots. 1 hour ago, ChristB4us said: I am not belittling you of your level of awareness nor lack of intellect or whatever. I was addressing what I had observed among those who claim to be scholars of Greek & Hebrew for why I am disagreeing with your translation. Man's intelligence is not the same as the wisdom of the Lord for why & how even babes can have His wisdom. OK, maybe you're just not that aware of the scholars who did translate the Greek word as "disqualified". 1 hour ago, ChristB4us said: Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.... 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. We agree to disagree. All that is left for us is to pray for one another and hope in the Lord that He may continue His iron sharpen iron ministry between us at another time. Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. You quote all these verses, and yet make no point, offer no explanation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristB4us Posted April 13, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 956 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 275 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/02/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 hour ago, The Light said: Just wondering why you use the term Pre great tribulation rapture event and not pre tribulation rapture? There is the tribulation we are in now where keeping the faith is the good fight against apostasy in these latter days of movements of the "spirit" thinking it is the Holy Spirit as well as movement of men like the Promise Keepers program of the late 90's but there may be a similar one yet for a nation to make a covenant with God for. Those are the two plumblines that God will permit to see who will depart from faith to resort to their own power and/or chase after other gods. Indeed, at one time, holy laughter movement and the promise Keepers movement "met" in St. Louis and so some will depart from faith in doing both of them. Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. The apostasy of the 1990's has taken many different forms today like the Asbury Revival and rumors of that political call for a covenant to make a stand for God has been circling about & the many volcanos erupting today with more earthquakes than ever are the reasons for why I believe the rapture is at the door to be ready by His grace & by His help or risk being left behind for being found in iniquity.. Then there is the great tribulation which will increase halfway thru it but essentially it is a time of temptation that shall try all remaining on the earth after that fiery calamity burns that third of the earth to see who will take the mark of the beast in order to buy & sell to survive in the coming New World Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking the lost Posted April 14, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 500 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 210 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 14, 2023 16 hours ago, The Light said: Yes I have found a key. It's called the truth. Please explain this if you can. 1 Thes 4 states that the dead in Christ rise first and then alive believers are caught up to meet them in the clouds. 1 Corinthians 15 says the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. How can they be the resurrection given the parameters. 1 Thes 4 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Cor 15 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Also in Daniel 12 it says MANY OF THEM that sleep in the ground shall arise. Why not all of the them? Daniel 12 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Just wondering if you realize that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal? I see you are struggling with my concept of resurrection. You have stated the scriptures accurately and that is truth. The dead in Christ must rise first. Where we disagree is in the timing.. The only time that the rapture can take place is after the dead in Christ are raised, which happens as stated in Rev. 20, at the end of the thousand years. The rapture is at least 1007 years away from now. before that happens there will be tribulation for 7 years. Many believers will die for their faith. The days of the tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect. If those days were not shortened there would no flesh be saved alive. There will be Christians that survive the tribulation. During the time of the tribulation, those outside of Christ will experience the wrath of God. Believers will be protected by a seal as stated in Rev. 7, 3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. This is followed by the instructions in Rev. 9, The Fifth Trumpet 1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. This is the time that the tares and the wheat are beginning to be separated. The seal will be similar to that described in Ezekiel 9, 1He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand. 2And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. 3And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; 4And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. 5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. 8And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem? 9Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not. 10And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head. 11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me. Judgment begins at the house of God. You might remember the parable of the wheat and tares. The tares are gathered first and burned. Jesus will come and clean house. Looking forward to being left behind. Those who live through the tribulation are now going to enter the millennium. They will be joined by those who have been killed for their faith as described in Rev. 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted April 15, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 15, 2023 4 hours ago, seeking the lost said: The rapture is at least 1007 years away from now. before that happens there will be tribulation for 7 years. Many believers will die for their faith. The days of the tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect. If those days were not shortened there would no flesh be saved alive. There will be Christians that survive the tribulation. I think not. Rev 9:20,21 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons and idols... nor did they repent. Only demon and idol worshipers alive before the 6th Trumpet. No Christians survive (not there, Harpozo/Raptured beforehand). Rev 3:10 - The Church did stay around for the test which is to come on all who dwell on the earth. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking the lost Posted April 15, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 500 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 210 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 15, 2023 15 hours ago, Montana Marv said: I think not. Rev 9:20,21 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons and idols... nor did they repent. Only demon and idol worshipers alive before the 6th Trumpet. No Christians survive (not there, Harpozo/Raptured beforehand). Rev 3:10 - The Church did stay around for the test which is to come on all who dwell on the earth. In Christ Montana Marv Greetings Montana The tares are evidently present in your quotation. there is a teaching of Jesus that the tares are to be taken out first. You do know that the wheat and the tares grow together until the end. The harvest begins with the tares being gathered and burned. Is this hard to understand? Looking forward to being left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptWalker Posted April 15, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 441 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/20/1970 Share Posted April 15, 2023 On 4/13/2023 at 3:15 PM, ChristB4us said: Tell me why Jesus is warning this church below and what the consequence is for not repenting and then explain what is the reward would be for repenting? Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. Well i could tell you, but i'm not going to...have a nice day anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristB4us Posted April 15, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 956 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 275 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/02/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted April 15, 2023 On 4/13/2023 at 4:33 PM, FreeGrace said: Those who don't are idiots. OK, maybe you're just not that aware of the scholars who did translate the Greek word as "disqualified". You quote all these verses, and yet make no point, offer no explanation. What happens to those that are disqualified? What happens to the reprobates? Are these not saved believers being "cut off" from being received and left behind for not being ready? Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? Care to explain what Jesus is warning His disciples about to avoid being a castaway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristB4us Posted April 15, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 956 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 275 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/02/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted April 15, 2023 27 minutes ago, CaptWalker said: Well i could tell you, but i'm not going to...have a nice day anyway. 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: If you do not have an answer... yet, that is fine. Just thought I would show Revelation 2:18-25 to see how you can align that with your belief. May God bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted April 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,461 Content Per Day: 8.10 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2023 1 hour ago, ChristB4us said: What happens to those that are disqualified? They lose eternal reward. 1 hour ago, ChristB4us said: What happens to the reprobates? 1 Cor 9:27 isn't about reprobates. 1 hour ago, ChristB4us said: Are these not saved believers being "cut off" from being received and left behind for not being ready? No. There are no scenarios in Scripture about either a pretrib rapture, or any believer missing out on the resurrection. 1 hour ago, ChristB4us said: Luke 12:40-49 Care to explain what Jesus is warning His disciples about to avoid being a castaway? Sure. Loss of eternal reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted April 16, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.10 Reputation: 202 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2023 On 4/14/2023 at 2:50 PM, seeking the lost said: I see you are struggling with my concept of resurrection. You have stated the scriptures accurately and that is truth. The dead in Christ must rise first. Where we disagree is in the timing.. The only time that the rapture can take place is after the dead in Christ are raised, which happens as stated in Rev. 20, at the end of the thousand years. The Lord is at the door. Soon it will be too late. On 4/14/2023 at 2:50 PM, seeking the lost said: The rapture is at least 1007 years away from now. before that happens there will be tribulation for 7 years. Many believers will die for their faith. The days of the tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect. If those days were not shortened there would no flesh be saved alive. There will be Christians that survive the tribulation. The Christians that survive the tribulaiton will be raptured. They are the ones that are that receive salvation in the flesh. On 4/14/2023 at 2:50 PM, seeking the lost said: During the time of the tribulation, those outside of Christ will experience the wrath of God. No. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. On 4/14/2023 at 2:50 PM, seeking the lost said: Believers will be protected by a seal as stated in Rev. 7, 3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. This is followed by the instructions in Rev. 9, Those that are sealed in Revelation 7 do not go through the wrath of God. If you understood Revelation you would understand that they are sealed earlier in the seals and are raptured to heaven before the great multitude is in heaven. The 144,000 that are sealed are the first fruits of the harvest at occurs at the 6th seal. Not a chance you understand this as you are missing the easy stuff. On 4/14/2023 at 2:50 PM, seeking the lost said: The Fifth Trumpet 1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. This is the time that the tares and the wheat are beginning to be separated. The seal will be similar to that described in Ezekiel 9, Not even close. The raptures are over before the 7th seal is opened. On 4/14/2023 at 2:50 PM, seeking the lost said: Judgment begins at the house of God. You might remember the parable of the wheat and tares. The tares are gathered first and burned. Jesus will come and clean house. Looking forward to being left behind. I'm thinking this takes place at the end of the 1000 years. On 4/14/2023 at 2:50 PM, seeking the lost said: Those who live through the tribulation are now going to enter the millennium. The Word clearly states that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the one year wrath of God begins. On 4/14/2023 at 2:50 PM, seeking the lost said: They will be joined by those who have been killed for their faith as described in Rev. 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. You completely miss the marriage supper of the Lamb that takes place in heaven. You are missing so much. What translation do you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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