This Has NOT Happened Yet

[R. Hartono]

17 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Please explain Matthew 24:21: "[F]or then shall be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be. Premillennialists claim that this prophecy cannot refer to the destruction of Jerusalem, since there have been “tribulations” much greater than those suffered in Jerusalem during the Roman invasion (A.D. 70). For example, the German holocaust of World War II involved many more people than those who died in A.D. 70. Therefore, this passage (they say) must have reference to a “great tribulation” in connection with the second coming of Christ. Please comment on this.

Preliminary to a consideration of this passage, we would encourage our readers to consult A Study of Matthew Twenty-Four. That essay will lay a significant foundation that will help in putting the present passage into proper focus. Having said that, the following points are crucial to understanding Matthew 24:21.

This Generation

The larger context of this chapter limits the descriptives of Matthew 24:5-22 to the generation contemporary with Christ. Jesus plainly said that “this generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished” (Mt. 24:34).

The term “generation” (Greek genea) basically refers to “the sum total of those born at the same time,” i.e., “all [those] living at a given time” (see Arndt and Gingrich 1967, 153; Thayer 1958, 112). The expression “this generation” restricts the focus of the passage to the people living at that time (cf. Mt. 11:16; 12:41-42; 23:36).

Jerusalem

The immediate context limits the horror of the destruction to the circumstances of ancient Jerusalem. Note that after the Lord’s admonition, relative to fleeing from Jerusalem (in winter or on the Sabbath), Christ says “for then [at that time (cf. Arndt and Gringrich, 831; Thayer, 629)] shall be great tribulation.” Thus Jesus specifies the time—it was near, not remote.

Not the Last Day

The text cannot refer to a tribulation at the end of time, otherwise Christ would not have said “nor ever shall be.” The Lord’s return will signal “the end” (see 1 Cor. 15:24) of earthly affairs (see 2 Peter 3:4ff). That day will be the “last day” (cf. Jn. 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24; 12:48).

It would hardly make sense to use the expression “nor ever shall be” when referring to an event that is proximate to the very end of the world itself.

Hyperbolic Language Possible

There is a possibility that the language contains some degree of hyperbole for the purpose of emphasis. Such is common to biblical literature (cf. Jn. 21:25). However, one is not forced to that view. There is ample evidence that the destruction of Jerusalem actually conforms to Matthew’s descriptive.

Emphasizing Intensity

The terminology is designed to emphasize the nature of the carnage, the intensity of the event, and not the mere numbers per se.

First, it describes a punishment upon the Jews. It was the worst event in their history. It represented the death of Israel nationally! Though the holocaust involved larger numbers, the type of suffering inflicted at Jerusalem was unparalleled in history. The acute famine, the in-fighting, the cannibalism, the savagery, the crucifixions, etc., were horrible beyond words.

Even Josephus commented that “the misfortunes of all men, from the beginning of the world, if they be compared to these of the Jews [at the destruction of Jerusalem], are not so considerable as they were” (Wars of the Jews, Preface, 4). The Jewish historian certainly was aware of numerous destructions prior to A.D. 70, even those portrayed in the Old Testament (including the flood). Yet Jerusalem’s misery eclipsed even that.

Several scholars have commented upon this.

Other sieges may have witnessed, before and since, scenes of physical wretchedness equally appalling, but nothing that history records offers anything parallel to the alternations of fanatic hope and frenzied despair that attended the breaking up of the faith and polity of Israel (Plumptre 1959, 148).

No nation had ever piled up a guilt such as that of the Jews who were chosen of God, infinitely blessed, and yet crucified God’s Son and trampled upon all his further grace. No judgment had ever and can ever be so severe. In the history of the world no judgment can be compared with this that wiped out the Jews as a nation (Lenski 1943, 940).

[The] tribulation to Israel [was] unparalleled in the terrible past of its history, and unequalled even in its bloody future. Nay, so dreadful would be the persecution, that, if Divine mercy had not interposed for the sake of the followers of Christ, the whole Jewish race that inhabited the land would have been swept away" (Edersheim 1947, 449).

Matthew 24:21 does not refer to the end of time. Its application, based upon all contextual considerations, was to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70.

As supplementary reading, I would recommend an excellent volume by J. Marcellus Kik, Matthew XXIV. It contains an excellent discussion of this matter.

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/342-was-the-siege-at-jerusalem-in-a-d-70-the-worst-in-world-history

The Bar Kokhba Battle between Hebrew n Roman that took place AD 120 killed more Jews than the 70 AD.

 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 6/23/2021 at 4:53 AM, Justin Adams said:

The larger context of this chapter limits the descriptives of Matthew 24:5-22 to the generation contemporary with Christ. Jesus plainly said that “this generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished” (Mt. 24:34).

αὕτη can mean "this," and it can mean "the same." If the latter, then Jesus was referring to "the same" generation in which the Parousia would take place, whether soon/1st century A.D., or after a couple thousand years. Your preference therefore is not at all conclusive.

On 6/23/2021 at 4:53 AM, Justin Adams said:

The text cannot refer to a tribulation at the end of time, otherwise Christ would not have said “nor ever shall be.” The Lord’s return will signal “the end” (see 1 Cor. 15:24) of earthly affairs (see 2 Peter 3:4ff). That day will be the “last day” (cf. Jn. 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24; 12:48).

It would hardly make sense to use the expression “nor ever shall be” when referring to an event that is proximate to the very end of the world itself.

Again, these are assumptions based upon your own beliefs. "Nor ever shall be" does not preclude, for example, a reference to an event in the Millennium. But of course you presume the Millennium has already begun, and we are already in it. Others believe otherwise, for much better reasons; such as the Lord's unfinished business with the nation of Israel.

On 6/23/2021 at 4:53 AM, Justin Adams said:

It represented the death of Israel nationally! Though the holocaust involved larger numbers, the type of suffering inflicted at Jerusalem was unparalleled in history. ... In the history of the world no judgment can be compared with this that wiped out the Jews as a nation (Lenski 1943, 940).

If the Jews have been "wiped out ... as a nation," -- I'm sure modern Jewry would heartily disagree with your statement -- then God lied to them. As in,

Jeremiah 33:19 And the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, 20 “Thus says the LORD: ‘If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, 21 ‘then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers. 22 ‘As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.’ ”

[TheBlade]

On 6/23/2021 at 4:31 AM, Selah7 said:

Mark 13:2 "And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

This has not happened yet. Many think that this was the time of Titus' destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., however, that event doesn't even compare to the destruction and the tribulation that God describes that will take place at Jesus Christ's return, at the end of this earth age, when the stones that are cast down will be turned to powder.  This will come to pass when Jesus returns at the sounding of the seventh trump.  Those huge stones will be nothing but tiny grains of sand.

Are we talking about the Temple? They did come in and didn't leave one stone upon another.. it was about the Gold. They did surround it and many had to leave take nothing with them and not look back. What I believe.. I could be wrong