Conversation with those who believe Christ has NOT returned (2nd Advent) and will NOT be coming pre trib (rapture)

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

And we are told to examine everything and keep the good and toss the bad. Nothing wrong with examining the details as long as one doesn't lose themselves in it. 

I find the overall theme of balance and control in the individual is a common thread in the Epistles. 

That is my point.  Page after page of details, of the philosophy, of the who believed what.  Where are all the pages that put the scriptures in order?  There are none because it always is changed to How we learn WHO we learn from on and on.  And the one thing that remains the same IS NO FORWARD MOVEMENT.  NO DEEPER UNDERSTANDINGS.  

Let's skip all that and just get into GODS WORDS.  Not much thought except where does this fit in the time line.  Does Zech 14 go with Rev ?? or not. Do those come before or after this or that??   Those sorts of things.  

There is so much in the minor prophets about the end times we never see or hear about.  Ever ask yourself why?  

Just going to try to start a BEFORE OR AFTER post where I list two different scriptures to see what the beliefs there are on them or something.  IDK. Seems they win again.  If only they knew what that really meant and how the sadness I feel is not for myself but for them....

As for the epistles being balanced and perfect...GOT TO LOVE GODS WORD.  MOOD SWING.  THANK YOU....and I am sorry for being all over the place.  It's very very hard to know what is coming and be 'wordless' to do anything about it.  Got to remember 'the whole world' and 'remnant' and keep my mind set where it should be.  D

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

Overall when all this begins it's going to very fast and extremely chaotic. Much will occur all at once and the shock day after day will be the real 'new normal'.

Bible hub on the word TRIBULATION.  When I read this I thought, that is what makes it so uncomfortable.

◄ 2347. thlipsis ►
Strong's Concordance
thlipsis: tribulation
Original Word: θλῖψις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: thlipsis
Phonetic Spelling: (thlip'-sis)
Definition: tribulation
Usage: persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.
HELPS Word-studies
2347 thlípsis – properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

2347 /thlípsis ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

AS the beast is rising up, so is our tribulation and once it comes into full power it will be GREAT because it will be impossible to resist IF you don't have GODS WORDS completely surrounding you.  You had said something that made me think of this
 

 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Walter and Deborah said:

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Would you agree that this is a description of what takes place right before Christ returns with the Rod of Iron, and the 'THAT DETERMINED' are the bowls/vials of wrath that are poured out at the last trump?  

If so, would you place the killing and lying in the street of the two witnesses for the 3 1/2 days as part of 'the consummation' of the end of this time also?

If so, would you say this is when 'Satan is destroyed by the Brightness of His coming'?

If so, DO you have any thoughts ON WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE who have taken the mark of the beast at this precise moment?  If so, what SCRIPTURES if any are you aware of that describe any of the who what wheres or whys?  

I really want to go on but in the hopes of better communication (on my part) I will rest here.  THANK YOU.  All very valid to me.  D

[Walter and Deborah]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Would you agree that this is a description of what takes place right before Christ returns with the Rod of Iron, and the 'THAT DETERMINED' are the bowls/vials of wrath that are poured out at the last trump?  

If so, would you place the killing and lying in the street of the two witnesses for the 3 1/2 days as part of 'the consummation' of the end of this time also?

If so, would you say this is when 'Satan is destroyed by the Brightness of His coming'?

If so, DO you have any thoughts ON WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE who have taken the mark of the beast at this precise moment?  If so, what SCRIPTURES if any are you aware of that describe any of the who what wheres or whys?  

I really want to go on but in the hopes of better communication (on my part) I will rest here.  THANK YOU.  All very valid to me.  D

Hi DeighAnn, In answer to your first three questions is yes, for the fourth question,

I believe there is a time for the white-throne judgment, that's if they make it or the lake of fire, people will judged for their works.  

Revelation 14:9-10 says that those who “accept” the sign of the beast will not enter the Kingdom of God. I'm of the opinion that even if one does “accept” the sign and repents before they die, they will be accepted in the Kingdom of God.

I really must rest. Thanks

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Bible hub on the word TRIBULATION.  When I read this I thought, that is what makes it so uncomfortable.

◄ 2347. thlipsis ►
Strong's Concordance
thlipsis: tribulation
Original Word: θλῖψις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: thlipsis
Phonetic Spelling: (thlip'-sis)
Definition: tribulation
Usage: persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.
HELPS Word-studies
2347 thlípsis – properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

2347 /thlípsis ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

AS the beast is rising up, so is our tribulation and once it comes into full power it will be GREAT because it will be impossible to resist IF you don't have GODS WORDS completely surrounding you.  You had said something that made me think of this

Yes. If one can't buy or sell that's a great deal of mental and emotional pressure. Think of all those people who built their life on money. What about parents with kids? The pressure will be enormous. My friend Last Daze says we have to prepare. I take that to mean be spiritually and mentally ready. Be informed. Mind steeled and face like stone for the battle. 

And what about all those who have been deceived and think there is an early ticket out or no relief at all? So many will take the mark and that's shocking to me. We know we have to be ready to endure and the great hope of Christ's return is what we wait for and hope in. What about the others who don't see it this way? 

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

That is my point.  Page after page of details, of the philosophy, of the who believed what.  Where are all the pages that put the scriptures in order?  There are none because it always is changed to How we learn WHO we learn from on and on.  And the one thing that remains the same IS NO FORWARD MOVEMENT.  NO DEEPER UNDERSTANDINGS.  

Let's skip all that and just get into GODS WORDS.  Not much thought except where does this fit in the time line.  Does Zech 14 go with Rev ?? or not. Do those come before or after this or that??   Those sorts of things.  

Okay, okay! 

 

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

There is so much in the minor prophets about the end times we never see or hear about.  Ever ask yourself why?  

Yeah. The answer is people are afraid or lazy or...this is the big one...the minor prophets are so on point and clear to hear them would change a persons view.

Very difficult for people.

 I posted a whole bunch about how Joel 1 relates to the trumps and proves the timing of the trumps as happening along with the seals. People mostly don't want to talk about it

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Just going to try to start a BEFORE OR AFTER post where I list two different scriptures to see what the beliefs there are on them or something.  IDK. Seems they win again.  If only they knew what that really meant and how the sadness I feel is not for myself but for them....

As for the epistles being balanced and perfect...GOT TO LOVE GODS WORD.  MOOD SWING.  THANK YOU....and I am sorry for being all over the place.  It's very very hard to know what is coming and be 'wordless' to do anything about it.  Got to remember 'the whole world' and 'remnant' and keep my mind set where it should be.  D

I do love this and I'm happy you started this thread.  Yes Zech 14 is related to Rev. It's chapter 6, 7 and 19 when Jesus returns.

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Though I totally agree with you here,  I hope you will help me with doing 

WHAT WE (you and I and anyone else seeking to find deeper truth) 

must do and that is

to ignore those who INTENTIONALLY PLACE STUMBLING BLOCKS in the path (AKA place THEMSELVES AND THEIR IDEAS IN THE middle of conversations that are not about WHAT THEY WANT TO PUT FORTH, just to make sure no one can, no matter what KIND OF FRUIT GOD CONSIDERS IT) of those seeking deeper understanding,  whether we have to put them on ignore or not.  To stir up strife and debate for the sole purpose of stirring up strife and debate must be the only goal as nothing new is ever said or revealed.  

If we don't, they will hijack every conversation every time because they  are incapable of restraining themselves and behaving like true Christians.  You wouldn't believe how long it took to word this post in HOPES it might help them restrain themselves. 

Look at how much time they have stolen already.  It is not ignorance, it is willful,  and so we must work around it or they win and that means Gods Word loses.  D

I agree here. At some point being mistaken becomes willful. They have to know the error they are committing because they have heard. We hear from people all the time. Random strangers, our kids, co workers, that person at the donut shop that only worked there for three days, the wise old hitchhiker, random YouTube vids... God speaks to us in many ways. Some ignore it.

I struggled with this for a while thinking people were just uninformed. Fact is Jesus said there would be false prophets. Paul said it. James. Jude. And where are those false prophets? They can only be members of the body. So they are right here with us all everyday. In your church building, YouTube preachers, in this forum. 

If they can't post scripture and just ramble on playing on emotions and using convincing argument they aren't credible. 

And I don't care who throws what in front of me as stumbling block. I drive a Jeep, I'll go right over it!

 

 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Selah7 said:

@Diaste  I agree with you that these 10 kings In Daniel 7:24 are not reigning yet.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: ...

Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

I believe these ten kings will be present during the reign of the AC during the great hour of temptation. Perhaps they will accompany Satan as part of that entourage of  fallen angels who are cast out with him?

I guess I don't know the identity of any of them or who rules over them or if it's kings who are possessed by fallen angels or just being led by fallen angels, except to say Satan the great dragon is controlling them all.

Some think Satan has been cast out of heaven since ages past. I don't see that. I see it here:

7Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

13And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. - Rev 12

It looks like when the dragon realizes he's been kicked to the curb he pursues the woman immediately but she is taken to safety. To me this aligns with Matt 24:15-22. Which means Satan is only evicted when GT begins.

[AandW_Rootbeer]

There is much misinformation within this thread.   Daniel and Revelation have been fulfilled in 70 A.D.?   That's not what the eye witness and Disciple of John, Papias, wrote and claimed.

 

Fragment 12
(Preserved in Gregory Hamartolus’ Chronicon, Codex Coislinianus 305 [PG 110:19])
1 After Domitian, Nerva reigned one year, who recalled John from the island of Patmos, and allowed him to dwell in Ephesus. He was at that time the sole survivor of the twelve Apostles.
2 I Papias, bishop of Hierapolis, who was an eye-witness of him and later disciple...

 

Papias Fragments are dated around 95-110 A.D. which perfectly fits the timeline of John being released in 95 A.D. and becoming Papias' Teacher along with Polycarp.

 

From Fragment 12, Papias, eye witness and eventual disciple of John writes after the death of Domitian, which we know was around the year 94 A.D., and when Nerva took control in his 1 year reign, released John from Patmos.

 

 

By saying Daniel and Revelation have been fulfilled, when referring to 70 A.D., goes directly against the historical writings and eye witness account of Papias.   

[Selah7]

45 minutes ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

There is much misinformation within this thread.   Daniel and Revelation have been fulfilled in 70 A.D.?   That's not what the eye witness and Disciple of John, Papias, wrote and claimed.

 

Hey there, AandW.  I believe that only two people in this whole thread came in here bringing in this “misinformation” you refer to.  Please read the OP by DeighAnn.  Thanks.