Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Amazing Horse]

13 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Timing.  At the 6th seal, when the sky is rolled back and they see He who sits on the throne and the Lamb, they know they've messed up.  Years later,after the 6th plague (2nd woe), they think they've won by defeating the two witnesses.

So what period of time is between falling rocks and Christ Returning? Also it says that they don't know that they messed up but they still profane his name and don't repent .

[Amazing Horse]

1 hour ago, BlazyJon said:

Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine Debunked

 

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 20:4-6

 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

So if the dead in Christ rise FIRST and... "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection", and we who are alive and remain do not precede them.  Then I submit to you that pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is FALSE.

Yes the Lord will descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, so consider:

1 Corinthians 15:52

 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

How many trumpets are there in Revelation?  Seven right?  So I am pretty sure the Church will be present during the first Six.  How do I know the Seventh Trumpet is the Last Trumpet?  I'll show you.

Revelation 11:15

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

So it is obvious that if they "BECOME the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ", then you can tell it is the last trumpet as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52.  And if the LAST trumpet then six need to blow first.  But the day and hour the Lord returns is only known by the Father, so the angel could sound it at any time.  And if he does then we who are alive and remain will meet the Lord in the air AS He is coming to Earth.  And if we simply meet Him in the air as He is coming to Earth, to stand on the Mount of Olives, won't we.............."Always be with the Lord"?--1 Thessalonians 4:17

Consider this:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

In 1 Thessalonians it spoke of our gathering together to Him and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
In 2 Thessalonians it speaks of our gathering together to Him and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul was writing these letters to the same people.

Consider this:

Luke 17:34-37

 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[f]

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

Revelation 19:21

And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Left where?  Left with the birds...or...eagles.  And if you check the context of Revelation 19:21 you will see that the Lord fully returned; it is quite obvious.

Romans 8:17

and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

The word suffer is not a typo.

Yes we which are alive do not precede them , some dead people alredy rose from dead when Christ died Matthew 27

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

Also last trump is in last year of 1000 year kingdom so i guess tribulation lasts for 1007 years according to you .

 

So looks like you have some vain in your logic <3

 

Could you explain Mysery of iniquity to me please ? If you never heared of it it's in 2 Thess 2:6-9

8And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

 

Who withdrawn here  or who is holding back who here ?

[Last Daze]

4 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said:

So what period of time is between falling rocks and Christ Returning? Also it says that they don't know that they messed up but they still profane his name and don't repent .

We don't know for sure but my guess is that ~3 years lapse between the sixth seal and the return of Christ.  During this time, the seven plagues are being brought to bear of the false prophet and those who follow him.

It's not mentioned that people don't repent until the end of the fourth plague (at the fourth bowl).   All the people who are going to repent have done so by the end of the fourth plague.  The fifth, sixth and seventh plagues are the three woes on the unrepentant.

 

[BlazyJon]

1 minute ago, Amazing Horse said:

Yes we which are alive do not precede them , some dead people alredy rose from dead when Christ died Matthew 27

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

So looks like you have some vain in your logic <3

 

Could you explain Mysery of iniquity to me please ? If you never heared of it it's in 2 Thess 2:6-9

8And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

Who withdrawn here  or who is holding back who here ?

2 Timothy 2:16-19

16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[c] depart from iniquity.”

Are they still alive?

 

[Amazing Horse]

30 minutes ago, BlazyJon said:

2 Timothy 2:16-19

16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[c] depart from iniquity.”

Are they still alive?

 

You didn't respond about my question first , do you want to take parts like in discussion or just post only your arguments ? Actually it's defense of post-tribulation thread so you should post your wall of text against pre-tribulation so they can defend it , and yourself answer my questions here as representant of post-trib.

[Amazing Horse]

19 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

We don't know for sure but my guess is that ~3 years lapse between the sixth seal and the return of Christ.  During this time, the seven plagues are being brought to bear of the false prophet and those who follow him.

It's not mentioned that people don't repent until the end of the fourth plague (at the fourth bowl).   All the people who are going to repent have done so by the end of the fourth plague.  The fifth, sixth and seventh plagues are the three woes on the unrepentant.

 

so how they can blasphemy God for 3 years  and profane him seeing his face and hiding behind rocks and then be surprised that he came down to them unexpected as thief ?

[BlazyJon]

20 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said:

You didn't respond about my question first , do you want to take parts like in discussion or just post only your arguments ? Actually it's defense of post-tribulation thread so you should post your wall of text against pre-tribulation so they can defend it , and yourself answer my questions here as representant of post-trib.

Ok, Sorry Amazing Horse.  How about just start over.  I re-read your question about the mystery of lawlessness.  The simple knowledge of that is a pearl and is holy.  So how about you PM me if there is a function on here like that, and to the best of my knowledge I can fill you in, ok?  Can Amazing Horse forgive a newbie? 

Also give any other question you may have.

[BlazyJon]

23 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said:

so how they can blasphemy God for 3 years  and profane him seeing his face and hiding behind rocks and then be surprised that he came down to them unexpected as thief ?

Amazing Horse how about a little verse to help to answer your question?

Acts 1:7

And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

[Amazing Horse]

2 minutes ago, BlazyJon said:

Amazing Horse how about a little verse to help to answer your question?

Acts 1:7

And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

Don't respond to me with your questions but answer what i asked , who is withtold who or who is left before who in 2 Thess 2:6-9 , if you don't answer then you just can't defend your post-trib theory simple as that . If you did not come here to defend your point then don't come here at all because it's pointless.

[Last Daze]

32 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said:

so how they can blasphemy God for 3 years  and profane him seeing his face and hiding behind rocks and then be surprised that he came down to them unexpected as thief ?

As I mentioned here, they think they've defeated Him.  Their view of God isn't the same as our view of God.