Israel in Prophesy (still future vs 1948)

[dad2]

4 hours ago, abcdef said:

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The end of the gentile trampling/control over the city of Jerusalem ended in 1967.

Lk 21:24.

 

 

Since the Jews can't even pray on the holy mount, and the population of Jerusalem, according to wiki is about 61% it seems a lot of gentiles are there. What is the reason you claim they don't trample?

Luke 21:20

 

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:21

 

Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke 21:22

 

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Luke 21:23

 

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Luke 21:24

 

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luke 21:25

 

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Luke 21:26

 

Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Luke 21:27

 

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

 

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Is every prophecy ever made fulfilled in Lk 21:20-24? No.

The reference to the time of vengeance is to the great tribulation as brought out in other places.  The reference to fleeing and woe to those that are with child also tells us it is that time when they need to flee right away when the abomination of desolation is placed.

Looking at Clarkes commentary we see this

"Of the Gentiles be fulfilled. — Till the different nations of the earth, to whom God shall have given the dominion over this land, have accomplished all that which the Lord hath appointed them to do; and till the time of their conversion to God take place. But when shall this be? We know not. The nations are still treading down Jerusalem, and the end is known only to the Lord"

That will be when they get saved, after the tribulation/vengeance.

 

4 hours ago, abcdef said:

It is ridiculous to think that Lk 21:20-24 fulfills every prophecy ever made. Is that what you think v 22 means? 

You are the one that suggested that, not me. Some things have a partial fulfilment in history and before that ultimate fulfilment.  Being brought before rulers for example, and being betrayed by family. However by the time we get to that trigger event of the abomination of desolation being set up, and people needing to flee right away, that is the end. In this chapter that is verse 20. There it leaves history behind!

[dad2]

4 hours ago, abcdef said:

There was trouble/ tribulation when Rome invaded Israel in 63 BC, when the iron of the statue in Dan. 2 began.

There was trouble/tribulation before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

There was trouble/tribulation during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

And there was great trouble/tribulation after Jerusalem fell in 70 AD, until Jerusalem was restored in 1967.

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The word "tribulation" is just a translation of the word "trouble".

 

 

 

No. In the context of prophesy there is a distinct period of a specific length that is set off by a specific event. Whenever we see this time spoken about it is not just routine historical tribulations or tribulations believers will face or have faced in history. God uses certain phrases and terms and events that should clue us in right away if we understand. 

[Keras]

Israel in Prophecy:

     Amos 8:11-14 The Lord says: The time is coming when there will be a famine on the Land, not of hunger, but for hearing the Word of God. People will search for the truth, but will not find it. All who swear by false gods will fall, to rise no more.

Amos 9:1-15 I saw the Lord standing by the altar – He said: break down the buildings onto the heads of the people and any who are left, I shall put to the sword. Wherever they hide, I will find them and destroy them.

At the Touch of the Lord, the earth shakes, all who live there mourn. He is the One who created the heavens and the earth.

Are not you Israelites like the Cushites to Me? I brought you up from Egypt. My eyes are on this sinful nation and I will judge them.

Yet, I will not completely destroy Jacob’s posterity. I shall give the command to sieve Israel among the nations, without one pebble falling to the ground. All the sinners among My people will die.

On that Day, I shall restore David’s fallen house and rebuild it as it was long ago, so that Israel may possess what is left of Edom and all those nations who were once named as Mine.

A time is coming when the Land will prosper and be fruitful. I shall bring back My exiled people, they will restore their towns and vineyards. They will enjoy the produce of the Land. Once more, I shall plant My people in their own soil, never again to be removed from the Land that I have given them.    REB [abridged]

 

My contention that all Israel; who are now every faithful Christian, will gather and settle into all of the holy Land before the Return of Jesus, is reinforced by this passage from the prophet Amos. The sequence of events is clear – firstly a lack of good Bible teaching. Then, in Amos 9:1-8, describes the Day of the Lords vengeance, when disaster will fall onto all these peoples attacking the State of Israel. As per Amos 1.

The Jews too, will be judged. Jeremiah 12:14-17, Amos 2:4-5

But the descendants of Jacob, that is all 12 tribes of Israel, including those grafted in by their faith, are known to God. He will gather and judge them all.  Ezekiel 20:34-36, Isaiah 1:25, Deuteronomy 32:36.

V. 11-12 Then, “On that day, I will restore David’s fallen house”. This will fulfil God’s promise to David, that His royal line will continue forever. “so that Israel may possess what is left of Edom”, all of the holy Land, cleared out by the Lord’s Day of wrath.

This enables the Lord’s Christian people to be a ‘light to the nations’ and preach the gospel of the coming Kingdom. It also fulfils God’s promises to the Patriarchs, that their posterity will live in peace and prosperity in ALL the Land promised to them. Deut 30:36

The Lord will bestow on His people all those amazing blessings as promised throughout  the Bible. There will be times of difficulty, and testing as when the Anti Christ stops the offerings in the New Temple, Daniel 9:27, but those who hold firm to faith in God, will see Jesus Return in His Glory and will reign with Him.

Amos 9:13-15 Behold, the days come, says the Lord..... the mountains shall drip sweet wine....... and I will bring again the captivity of My people of Israel and they shall build the waste cities and inhabit them. They will plant vineyards and drink the wine thereof........ and I shall plant them upon their Land and they shall no more be pulled up out of their Land, which I have given them, says the Lord thy God.                                                                                         

[Keras]

23 hours ago, Josheb said:

When will this happen? Please be as specific as you can be in identifying a timeframe for this to occur. 

The gathering of all the Lord's people into all of the holy Land,  will happen soon after all the holy Land area is cleared and cleansed. By the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 66:15-17, Ezekiel 30:1-5, 2 Peter 3:7

The Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath is the Sixth Seal event, and is the event that comes as a thief, unexpectedly. We cannot know the day of the hour it will come. 

However we do know the season for it and by the indications of the Middle East situation, it could be quite soon. Psalm 83, Micah 4:11-12

[Leonardo Von]

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Israel in Prophesy (still future vs 1948)

Most of the prophecies referring to Israel will be fulfilled in the future. Israel is the key of the prophecy, the place from where the beast will reign.

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

 

When will every faithful Christian gather and settle into all of the holy land? 

Within the next 10 years,   Jesus will Return exactly 2000 years after He was acclaimed as King and then killed'  Much must happen before that great Day, so be ready for dramatic events, commencing quite soon. Hosea 6:2, Luke 13:32

My answers are not 'non answers', I support what I say with many scriptures. Address them, don't shoot the messenger.  

I believe I will see it and will participate in it.  And I turned eighty recently.  Jeremiah 46:27-28, Psalms 37:29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:1-16, Romans 9:24-26

[Keras]

Thanks Josheb. Obviously we read Prophecy differently. 

There is many prophesies about the great second Exodus of the faithful Christian peoples into all of the holy Land. Psalms 107 for example.   

It is our destiny to be His people there, His witnesses; Isaiah 43:9, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

WE will build a new Temple and will make offerings in it. Ezekiel 40 to 46

[dad2]

On 8/8/2021 at 2:20 PM, Keras said:

Within the next 10 years,   Jesus will Return exactly 2000 years after He was acclaimed as King and then killed'  Much must happen before that great Day, so be ready for dramatic events, commencing quite soon. Hosea 6:2, Luke 13:32

My answers are not 'non answers', I support what I say with many scriptures. Address them, don't shoot the messenger.  

I believe I will see it and will participate in it.  And I turned eighty recently.  Jeremiah 46:27-28, Psalms 37:29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:1-16, Romans 9:24-26

Claiming to know the time Jesus will return eh? Seriously?

[dad2]

On 8/8/2021 at 3:47 PM, Josheb said:

Well, let's see, shall we? 

The statement currently being discussed is all Christians will gather and settle in the holy land (and they'll do it within then next ten years).

 

Why would we citizens of the eternal holy city, New Jerusalem want to settle in Israel? It will be enough to visit there from our heavenly home and help with ruling. Jesus never promised us the land of Israel, that would be the Jews.

[dad2]

A time is coming when the Land will prosper and be fruitful. I shall bring back My exiled people, they will restore their towns and vineyards. They will enjoy the produce of the Land. Once more, I shall plant My people in their own soil, never again to be removed from the Land that I have given them.    REB [abridged]

 

My contention that all Israel; who are now every faithful Christian, will gather and settle into all of the holy Land before the Return of Jesus,

 

 

When God plants them, after they repent, then they will never be moved. Not now. Not in the Tribulation. To claim Christians would not be gathered and taken up to be with Jesus is not a sound proposition either.

 To claim every believer will be in Israel is a crank claim.

Edited August 10, 2021 by dad2