Questions about Jewishness

[traveller]

I'm glad you are asking all these questions Angels! I need to know too!

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Angels4u,

On the subject of a gentiles "Jewishness", this is where I depart from my brother in the faith - George. We are "drawn nigh", but do NOT become a part of the "commonwealth of Israel". Also, when you speak of being "grafted in", you are grafted into the "Kingdom of God", that once was the sole province of Israel, but was taken from them and given to the Gentiles. This is in reference to being "grafted into the Olive Tree" in Romans 11.

The Messianic Jews (the true Jews, those of Jacob of the faith of Abraham) are now our "brothers & sisters in the faith". We are brought together by the common thread of "faith" which we share in Jesus Christ. The distinction must always be made clear, since time and again this is what the scriptures portray.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Angels4u,

I quess that when the Jews will go out in the Tribulation to preach the gospel they will teach people to believe in Jesus and practice Christianity in the Jewish way.

hmm never thought of this before.

I am not sure why you think it will only be the Jews who preach the gospel during the Tribulation period, but that is error. I can only assume you have been taught a pre-trib rapture scenario which is false.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[angels4u]

Dad Ernie,

I like to know why you are so sure that to believe in the pre trib is wrong,which Bible verse do you base this on?

For as far as I know the Jews are the 144000 who will go out in the Tribulation to preach the gospel? At least that is what I learned to believe.

Thanks,Angels

George I changed my mind, I discussed the Messianic Jewish thing with my husband and he thinks I'm making it too complicated, he says that a Gentile Christian can never become a Messianic Jew because we are not born Jews.

He thinks that the Jewish people who accept Jesus will become Christians Jews. Make sense doesn't it?

Do I make things that complicated?? :bright:

[George]

I quess I have alot to learn...when you became a Gentile Messianic Jew did you started to study the Bible in a different way? And the Jewish Bible is that different then then ours?

It's the same Bible Angels. The reality is that we study THEIR Bible. It's a Jewish Bible that we read. The only gentile chapters that we could stretch and perhaps say were written by a gentile could be Luke and Acts. But the reality is that Luke was a proselyte. He became Jewish.

It's basically labels. Which label do you want? LOL! Honestly I have no problem calling myself a Christian or a Messianic believer. Now as far as the idea of being part of Israel. Remember there's only 12 tribes on the gates of the New Jerusalem. There's only 12 -- there is no "extra" tribe for Gentiles. The idea of being grafted into the true spiritual olive tree is being grafted into the kingdom. As far as what Ephesians declares:

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[angels4u]

Hi George,

OK, I take your advice and don't label myself, I only put "Royal" for my name all right? Thank you for giving me that title!

I agree with you its not important what we call ourself, but I have to say that I agree with Dad Ernie about the Jewishness,when we become born again, we become part of Gods Kingdom as do the Jews,but we are not children of Abraham, so that can not make us Jewish ( he he) I'm getting it!

I quess because I love Israel and the Jewish people ,which I believe God put in my heart,that's the reason I wanted to find all of this out for myself.

It was also very good to read those Bible verses again which you posted.

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[George]

but we are not children of Abraham

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Didn't God promise Abraham that he would be a FATHER to many nations? Not just one nation but MANY nations. How do you suppose this promise is fulfilled?

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings George,

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The "seed" referred to here is NOT the PHYSICAL seed, but the "SPIRITUAL". Abraham's "faith" was the first to exhibit the KIND of "faith" God wants us all to have and that is complete submission even to the laying down of our most prized and loved possession. It has NOTHING TO DO with being in Abraham's physical lineage. (More on this below)

Romans 4:11-12 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Didn't God promise Abraham that he would be a FATHER to many nations? Not just one nation but MANY nations. How do you suppose this promise is fulfilled?

First of all it wasn't through Jacob (Israel) that the promise would be fulfilled, it was through Isaac. Isaac was the TYPE and Christ is the ANTITYPE. Isaac had two sons - Jacob and Esau. Jacob is ONE nation, which means be default that it was through ESAU that ALL the other nations must be reckoned.

Abraham, Isaac & Esau were ALL Hebrew GENTILES! Meaning basically "of the nations". They were NOT Israelites! Esau married into the line of Ishmael of whom it was said:

Genesis 17:20-21 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

From Jacob came ALL the 12 tribes of ISRAELITES. These are ALWAYS shown to be of ONE people throughout the scriptures:

Genesis 49:28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Common sense, along with the scriptures, should tell you that to fulfill the PROMISE TO ABRAHAM to be the Father of MANY nations, does not mean JUST Israel - for they are but one NATION - or peoples.

So in addition to your "faith" being that of Abraham "your SPIRITUAL" father, WHO was a GENTILE, you ALSO have a HIGH PRIEST, who is NOT after the order of the Levitical Priesthood, but was made a High Priest AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK - ANOTHER GENTILE!

There is much more I could iterate upon this, but will leave it for now for you to respond.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

P.S. By NOT admitting to any JEWISHNESS, I am not denying that Christ was a Jew. In fact, It is His Jewishness that creates in me a longing to fellowship with the Jews as they are regathered into God's global family. God is NOT the God of the Jews ONLY, but ALSO of the Gentiles.

[George]

Honestly Dad Ernie I believe we both believe the same thing. I never claimed to be a physical Jew but merely a Spiritual Jew. For to be a physical Jew I would need to be a Jew. But in Messiah we are all part of the same Spiritual Olive tree. Correct me if I am mistaken, but you also acknowledge yourself as a "spiritual Jew" as well.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Bro. George,

For to be a physical Jew I would need to be a Jew. But in Messiah we are all part of the same Spiritual Olive tree. Correct me if I am mistaken, but you also acknowledge yourself as a "spiritual Jew" as well.

To be a "spiritual Jew", you also have to be of the tribe of Jacob (Israel), such as Paul who claimed his Jewish ancestory, but also was of the faith of Abraham, which most Jews at that time, even up to now cannot claim. Those, as was Paul, are as we say "completed Jews", or as some say a "true Jew", as opposed to the "natural" Jew which is one of the flesh, but not of the faith of Abraham.

The Olive Tree is representative of the "Kingdom of God", of which was taken from the Jews where it was originally planted, and given to the Gentiles. The Jews were "cut off", and the gentiles were "grafted in". But this is not to say that it will remain this way forever, because Jesus came to "save HIS people from their sins", and according to Deut 4:26-31 & Romans 11, in the end times, God will turn their hearts once again to Him as a result of the mercy shown to them by the Gentile believers, and thus the two (gentiles & Jews) shall be made one in Christ - a habitation wherein God shall dwell through His Holy Spirit - Eph 2:22.

I cannot claim any Jewishness as far as I know, but I look forward to the day we shall all be one in Christ IN the Kingdom of God.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie