So Many Considering SUICIDE These Days....

[Tammy Roesch]

4 hours ago, missmuffet said:

You are not interpreting Ecclesiastes 9:5 correctly.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 reads, “For the living know that they will die, / but the dead know nothing; / they have no further reward, / and even their name is forgotten.” This verse is sometimes used as a proof text for annihilationism, but that concept is not what is being communicated here. The “dead know nothing,” but in what way?

First, it is clear from other places in the Bible that this verse cannot mean the dead have absolutely no knowledge. For example, Matthew 25:46 speaks of everlasting consciousness: “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Every person will spend eternity with God in heaven or apart from Him in hell. Each person will have feelings, thoughts, and abilities that exist in eternity.

In fact, Luke 16:19–31 offers an example of human capabilities in the afterlife. Lazarus is in paradise in eternal joy, while the rich man is in torment in hell (called “Hades”). The rich man has feelings, can talk, and has the ability to remember, think, and reason.

Second, Ecclesiastes 9:5 cannot contradict Ecclesiastes 4:2. There, Solomon states that the dead are “happier than the living.” However, when a person is dead, the opportunities to enjoy things on earth no longer exist.

The key to understanding the statement “the dead know nothing” is found in the theme of the book of Ecclesiastes. Ecclesiastes is written specifically from an earthly perspective. The key phrase, repeated throughout the book, is under the sun, used about thirty times. Solomon is commenting on an earth-bound life, “under the sun,” without God. His conclusion, also repeated throughout the book, is that everything from that perspective is “vanity” or emptiness (Ecclesiastes 1:2).

When a person dies “under the sun,” the earthly perspective, without God, is that it’s over. He is no longer under the sun. There is no more knowledge to give or be given, just a grave to mark his remains. Those who have died have “no further reward” in this life; they no longer have the ability to enjoy life like those who are living. Eventually, “even their name is forgotten” (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

https://www.gotquestions.org/dead-know-nothing.html

You need to be careful not to post false teaching on Worthy. There are new christians on Worthy and we do not want to allow them to stumble and fall. God does not like that at all.
 

 

We probably should save this discussion for a different thread as it sort of distracts from the SUICIDE part.  There is much more to say but I'll leave this for now.... Other than you can rest assured, I'd never try to cause Newbies to stumble and fall.  I try my best to post CLEAR and HONEST posts. 

[enoob57]

8 hours ago, Tammy Roesch said:

 I try my best to post CLEAR and HONEST posts. 

This is a good desire as I have had it myself... the only way I can be assured of it being a reality in myself is study and rightly dividing the Word of God... it must be of s/Spirit for the flesh is to concerned with the things of this world...

[Tammy Roesch]

Sometimes people will use the story of Samson to support the teaching that you can commit suicide and not be lost.

I don't believe that Samson committed SUICIDE at all.  The Israelites and the Philistines were CONSTANTLY in war...and Samson knew that if he could pull down those two foundation pillars the entire building would collapse and he would take out more Philistines at his death than in his entire lifetime.

Jdg 16:28  And Samson called unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.

Jdg 16:29  And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.

Jdg 16:30  And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.

What Samson did, was an ACT OF WAR, a selfless act of war, where he sacrificed his life for the good of his Country...his last words were his prayer to God to give him the strength to carry out the mission.  And God heard his prayer.  

God never helps anyone to commit suicide as suicide is NEVER His will for ANYONE. Suicide is SELF-MURDER, and the Bible is clear that there will be no MURDERERS in Heaven.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Tammy Roesch

[Guest]

Although thoughts of suicide have crossed my mind on several occasions, and I willingly accepted death until the Lord saved me physically from drowning and again from being shot, I know it would not please God if I gave in to suicide so I am forced to tough it out.  I don't know if my death will be peaceful or not, I leave it in His hands.  Praise the name of Jesus.

[Selah7]

Good morning, sibs …
I’d just like to add some thoughts here.  First of all, suicide is not the unforgivable sin.  Our Father is a fair Judge—full of compassion—and He loves His children—He is the only one with all the facts.  Many times people who take their own lives are mentally deficient, etc.  Only God knows.

selah . . .

[Tammy Roesch]

20 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

Good morning, sibs …
I’d just like to add some thoughts here.  First of all, suicide is not the unforgivable sin.  Our Father is a fair Judge—full of compassion—and He loves His children—He is the only one with all the facts.  Many times people who take their own lives are mentally deficient, etc.  Only God knows.

selah . . .

I don't find any support in the Bible for forgiveness of ANY SIN, without REPENTANCE.

When a person commits suicide, their last opportunity of repentance is gone.

[Selah7]

11 minutes ago, Tammy Roesch said:

I don't find any support in the Bible for forgiveness of ANY SIN, without REPENTANCE.

When a person commits suicide, their last opportunity of repentance is gone.

I still will let God be God and put no limitations on His omniscience and mercy, Tammy.  
selah. . .

[Alive]

6 hours ago, Tammy Roesch said:

I don't find any support in the Bible for forgiveness of ANY SIN, without REPENTANCE.

When a person commits suicide, their last opportunity of repentance is gone.

In consideration of what is said above, a few things need to be mentioned.

First, we need to have a proper biblical understanding of what it means to have been Redeemed by the Blood of the lamb of God, to have been born from above and placed into Christ by the Father--by the Father's will. Once we see that and understand also that such individuals have been gifted with Christ's Life---Eternal Life and that such ones are Hidden with Christ in God---NOW. This is clear in scripture.

Then we also understand the the Blood of Christ washed and washes us of all sin(s).

All of those that are in Christ while still in these fleshly bodies sin...all do and do so frequently in all manner of ways---fleeting thought, longer term thoughts and deeds.

All are covered by the Blood. We are not always cognizant of our sins and there is not that conscious 'repentance' present. Some more obvious sins such as being unjustly angry at another are not immediately confessed or repented of. This is part of the human existence. The Blood covers them all---its Grace. His Grace for His Elect sons of God. If an individual is driving in a car and has an impure thought and is immediately killed---no repentance---the Blood is efficacious. Always. This is His Grace. It must also be understood that there is nothing that we can do to earn His favor. If that were so, then God would not have had to take our place and be judged in our place.

For those in Christ, there is forgiveness without repentance. Sancification is a process and God is Gracious for the entire process, which is different for every son of God.

We need to know just how far short of God's righteous requirement each of us is. Our flesh and what proceeds from that flesh is abhorrent to God. This is why God has imputed to us Christ's Righteousness and why we have fellowship with the Father and why we are able to approach the throne for Grace in time of need.

We that are in Christ are perfectly SAVED.

[Tammy Roesch]

19 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

I have several chonic pain conditions.  For example, I have had full blown fibromyalgia since I was 18.  There was not even a name for it yet. On top of that, 25 years ago because of an injury in an accident I developed trigemenal neuralgia.  It's considered to be the most painful medical condition that exists and is nicknamed the suicide disease because of the high rate of suicides for this condition before there were any medications for it. Unfortunately I have paradoxical effects from them and it makes it worse.  I can understand why someone would rather be dead than live like this.  In my case, God's will not mine.  But, I imagine if someone had no religious beliefs and were in such pain.....

Anyway my post about my one day at a time system in the thread I posted the link to earlier I hope is helpful to believers. 

.

Yes Chicken coop2, I too, understand why non-Christians see suicide as an option when they are in so much pain and other terrible conditions....when there is no hope, what else is there?  

[Tammy Roesch]

27 minutes ago, Alive said:

In consideration of what is said above, a few things need to be mentioned.

First, we need to have a proper biblical understanding of what it means to have been Redeemed by the Blood of the lamb of God, to have been born from above and placed into Christ by the Father--by the Father's will. Once we see that and understand also that such individuals have been gifted with Christ's Life---Eternal Life and that such ones are Hidden with Christ in God---NOW. This is clear in scripture.

Then we also understand the the Blood of Christ washed and washes us of all sin(s).

All of those that are in Christ while still in these fleshly bodies sin...all do and do so frequently in all manner of ways---fleeting thought, longer term thoughts and deeds.

All are covered by the Blood. We are not always cognizant of our sins and there is not that conscious 'repentance' present. Some more obvious sins such as being unjustly angry at another are not immediately confessed or repented of. This is part of the human existence. The Blood covers them all---its Grace. His Grace for His Elect sons of God. If an individual is driving in a car and has an impure thought and is immediately killed---no repentance---the Blood is efficacious. Always. This is His Grace. It must also be understood that there is nothing that we can do to earn His favor. If that were so, then God would not have had to take our place and be judged in our place.

For those in Christ, there is forgiveness without repentance. Sancification is a process and God is Gracious for the entire process, which is different for every son of God.

We need to know just how far short of God's righteous requirement each of us is. Our flesh and what proceeds from that flesh is abhorrent to God. This is why God has imputed to us Christ's Righteousness and why we have fellowship with the Father and why we are able to approach the throne for Grace in time of need.

We that are in Christ are perfectly SAVED.

Well, that is another topic  ~ Once Saved - Always Saved ~ and I don't believe it that one, either....but I don't want to derail the thread so I'll leave it at that for now :).