Is that His real name Jesus?

[Ancient]

On 8/9/2021 at 5:25 PM, Justin Adams said:

Luke was a gentile.

Really you sure about that? Maybe widen your studies a bit further and get some more points of view. 

Shalom Friend

[Justin Adams]

13 minutes ago, Ancient said:

Really you sure about that? Maybe widen your studies a bit further and get some more points of view. 

Shalom Friend

I did and have done so. It is odd that a comment would intimate this kind of thing. It is obvious from what I read that someone's understanding of Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic is quite limited. Maybe these people need a different bandwagon? 

The Tanakh is quite explicit of many things that the 10+2 tribes got completely wrong about Yah and His Son - the Monogenes - the One and Only Unique One.

[Ancient]

22 hours ago, Josheb said:

@Ancient, 

You've recently joined the Worthy forum; I see you've been here less than a week. First, let me welcome you to Worthy. Worthy has many articulate posters, many of whom are well-seasoned in the Lord, well-educated, well-experienced, very intelligent, and a wonderful source of information for those wanting to learn. Those who come only to teach the devout, practiced, intelligent, educated and articulate usually don't last. If they do persist they usually end up spending all their time trading posts with the outliers of the forum; those whose theology and handling of scripture is so obviously outside the pale of orthodoxy that those "conversations" invariably amount to fruitlessness. I hope that's not your experience. 

I'm wondering what you think of the resistance you're receiving in this op. I suspect it was unanticipated. I'll assume this is not the first or only internet Christian discussion forum you've joined, and perhaps you're receiving similar frequency and levels of disagreement in other boards where you might have posted ops similar to this one. Folks here have expressed areas of agreement but they've also disagreed and brought up very real and valid points. Some of what has been posted appears to be new to you; is that correct? I don't see anything specifically about your views on your profile page so I can't speak to your theological roots, age/maturity, experience, etc. but it appears that internet discourse is not something with which there is much experience. If the majority of posters here are correct then this op and its supporting posts warrant some amends but that doesn't mean anything disrespectful is intended or  expected. As I said, others have brought up some very valid concerns. 

 

It seems that my statement concerning the Jews getting a lot incorrect is a new concept to you. You read it as my believing scripture is incorrect in some way or the Jews could not hear from God when neither is a view I hold. I've tried to use the Jewish view of the Messiah as an example because they clearly got it wrong and they got it wrong in many ways, not just the identity of Y'shua/Jesus. I don't know whether you are familiar with E. P. Sanders or not but he wrote a book several decades ago in which he investigated the Hebraic/Jewish roots of Christianity. He wasn't the first but his work was seminal. And controversial. He's one of the modern roots of Hebraic studies and folks like N. T. Wright, Tim Mackie, Michael Heiser, and others emphasizing Hebraic roots are direct offspring of his influence. If you've read/heard any of them then you know they write some very valid and important things but must also be read/heard with discernment because some of what they say is incorrect. As far as I can tell you find yourself in similar circumstance (even if you've never heard of these guys ) - you've got some good content but some of it warrants correction. 

Can you handle that conversation? Can you discuss your own positions knowing others might provide evidence warranting a change of view? 

I ask because I can provide several examples of where and how the Jews did not correctly understand God's revelation. I know that statement may leave your jaw hanging in incredulity but that incredulity doesn't change the facts of scripture. Scripture records the Jews getting things wrong. One of the ways that might be relevant to this op is in the meaning of the name of God's anointed one because if the Jews did not correctly understand that from which they were being saved then their understanding of the anointed one's name is also incorrect...... and therefore should not be relied upon. Let me add, for those who may be Messianic Jews, that this is not an indictment of MJism. I don't have any problem with that view/sect in general. If you, Ancient, are MJ then know that no criticism of MJism is intended. 

 

2 Corinthians 3:12-15
"Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech,  and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.  But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.  But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart...."

 

The old covenant remains veiled to them, even "to this day". 

So....

....two things...

1) I'm happy to discuss where and how the Jews got things wrong and God recorded them doing so in His inerrant word, and 

2) What do you make of this current level of disagreement posted from a plethora of posters all of whom come from very diverse perspectives? Many of us disagree with each other in various areas of scripture but we're all in agreement here: this op warrants some amends. What do you make of that?

 

 

.

Wow the religious spirit is strong with you isn't it. Yes you assume a lot don't you. This is the first forum I have joined ever. So you are way of the mark there and have just made a fool of yourself. Then you go on about being articulate, well educated, very intelligent, you and all your cronies, be careful of being puffed up. Self praise is no recommendation. 

NKJ 1 Corinthians 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

Well I may be simple and foolish in your eyes, that's exactly where I want to be. No wonder Yeshua chose the working class of His world and not the intellects as you see yourself. I am in good company with those rugged, unlearned fisherman. Get of your articulate, well educated, very intelligent peddle stool, and mingle with us lowlife's that our Master Yeshua mingled with and called.

Yes I am a Hebrew not Messianic Jew. Maybe you should find out what the word Hebrew means in Hebrew. As this is what Abraham was well before there were even any Israelites or the nation of Israel. I follow the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God that does not change Malachi 3:6. My Lord, Master and Savior Yeshua is the same yesterday, today and forever Heb 13:8. He doesn't change and that means His word from Gen - Rev doesn't change because He is that word. John 1:1.

All I was trying to do was expose people that may have not known the impact and errors there are in translations. For some it is evident that they can't cope with that because it rattles the religious cage right to the foundation. And before you carry on with a response to that, I was also a religious person that had my religious cage rattled and Halleluyah the door swung open and I was set free and released from my religion that goes way back to the many Anti-semitic early church fathers with their disgraceful, deceitful, from the pit of hell doctrines that are total contrary to those that our Messiah Yeshua taught as did His apostles.

Yeshua Himself said in Matt 4:4 quoting directly from Deut 8:3 Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of Yahweh. The NT was not written yet!!! When this was proclaimed. So we are to live by every word of Yahweh, what was the word of Yahweh when this was said? The Hebrew scriptures. That is fact. You can't spin that any other way. I am following to the best I know how the word of Yahweh. I am saved by the grace and mercy of Yahweh, by the blood of the Passover Lamb Yeshua. Not the Easter Bunny. Rattled some more religious cages. 

Being saved by grace and mercy does not mean the commandments are finished. Yeshua Himself said in John 14:15 If you love me keep my commandments. Again no NT when this was proclaimed so what are the commandments? Well they are in the Hebrew scriptures!!! You know the ones they all read from every Sabbath, as Yeshua also kept the Sabbath as His custom was. There are no other set of commandments!! 

If you are going to try and ridicule me expect some back directly quoting you "if you can handle that" can you be open to another view or are you so narrow minded you can look through a keyhole with both eyes?

I can handle myself I will not be bullied by you. What a shame in a Christian forum. 

Shalom Friend 

[Ancient]

22 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

Shalom @Ancient

 

לִֽישׁוּעָתְָ֖ קִוִּ֥יתִי יְהוָֽה׃ 

I believe this was your meaning regarding the name of Jesus in derivation from the Hebrew. 

I would like to hear your furtherance as to the name of James. I think that presentation didn't stand up very well and seemed to be the cause of much misunderstanding. 

First thankyou for your rationale and kindness. As to your question about James it is quite simple if you can look up the name of James from your Bible in the Greek you will find it says Ιακωβος pronounced Iakobos. This is the same as the Greek word for Jacob in the NT. Now if you use the Septuagint the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT you will find the same Greek word there. 

shalom friend

[Ancient]

22 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

Well, the Holy Scripture is perfect, but, unfortunately, when the theologians translated to our language, some words were difficult to understand.

Exactly and through this process meanings and words were redefined. One needs to remember also the Bible is still the number 1 selling book in the world year on year. This means $$$$$ it what sells that matters not so much accuracy. Think about that.

No No the publishers would never. Really?

Shalom Friends

[Justin Adams]

13 minutes ago, Ancient said:

I can handle myself I will not be bullied by you. What a shame in a Christian forum. 

I think you might find that your tone and repeated use of "you" is personal and therefore against the TOS you agreed to when joining this forum.  

Edited August 10, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Ancient]

2 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

I think you might find that your tone and repeated use of "you" is personal and therefore against the TOS you agreed to when joining this forum.  

Wow it is Ok when it is against me but I can't stand up for myself and defend myself.

Who would of thought! I was replying to a post you was singular not plural. 

[Ancient]

It is obvious by the few responses I know there are 6 pages but the majority are a few people. That cages have been rattled. This was not my intent what so ever. My intent was to try and engage people into critical thinking about the translations of their bibles. No harm in asking some tough questions. The fact is all of our Bibles are translations of the Original Bible. Like any other book say The Adventures of Tom Sawyer if that book is translated into 10 other languages there are words and meanings that will be different in those "translations" as is with pretty much every culture on earth and language there are idioms that are peculiar to them. The same is with the Original Bible it was written by Hebrews in a Hebrew middle eastern 2,000 + year old culture. There are many words and idioms that have lost their original meanings intended by the original authors through the process of translation. That is all I am trying to make people aware off.

It seems that there are a few that can't fathom or comprehend this possibility and therefore go on the attack rather than use critical thinking and maybe even hmmm I don't know investigate this possibility. Full disclosure I used to be one of these people.

I would like to thank all the encouragement from people that can at least acknowledge this maybe. Also the support from those that can see what I am saying.

Shalom to you all (even those that really don't like what I am sharing) 

We are all brethren in Messiah Yeshua.

This will be my last post on this thread

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Alive
self pomotion

[appy]

There is no issue with people being interested in linguistics. However, no one has a monopoly with regard to linguistics, or historical knowledge.

But speech whether it is in English or some other language is meant to be understood by those hearing what is being said. Using big words or speaking with high-sounding ideas, or speaking in another language, or getting overly technical about words and spellings is not beneficial and does not make a person sound smarter, Instead such an individual comes across as being rude and arrogant.

1 Corinthians 1:17 (KJV)
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1 Corinthians 1:17 (NASB)
 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect.

1 Corinthians 1:17 (paraphrased)
For Christ didn’t send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel; and even my preaching sounds poor, for I do not fill my sermons with profound words and high-sounding ideas, for fear of diluting the mighty power there is in the simple message of the cross of Christ.

1 Corinthians 14:19 (KJV)
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

1 Corinthians 14:19 (NASB)
nevertheless, in church I prefer to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

1 Corinthians 14:19 (paraphrased)
But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.

[Leonardo Von]

48 minutes ago, Ancient said:

Exactly and through this process meanings and words were redefined. One needs to remember also the Bible is still the number 1 selling book in the world year on year. This means $$$$$ it what sells that matters not so much accuracy. Think about that.

No No the publishers would never. Really?

Shalom Friends

Yeah. Unfortunately, many people make Jesus and His Word into a business (Peter warned us against it - 2Peter 2:1-3). Fortunately, if we pore on the Holy Scripture with a sincere heart in Jesus' presence, in the direction of the Holy Spirit, we never will be confounded (Rom 10:11).