When does Iron Sharpening Iron simply become a head bashing party?

[Arrabon]

7 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Umm...

@Riverwalker

YA, me too .

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

The concept of iron sharpening iron is that a good healthy debate on scripture by a group of people who are familiar with scripture can "argue" their points and come to a c0ncensus through humbly listening to each one says. A lovely thing when it happens. but more often than not it becomes and ego driven chest bumping head thumping bonanza

To keep such a debate in check we have to do several things

• Realize that we probably do not know it all
• Realize that someone else might be able to add to our understanding
• Set aside the need to defend theologies which we embrace but that are not completely defined in scripture (rapture and end times come to mind)
• Listen(read) then speak(type)
• Be humble.....allow yourself to learn what can be learned
• if it turns into a hamster wheel (lots of action going no where) of endless and fruitless argument walk away....there is no winning here, only loosing

I keep going back to my mountain analogy. Christianity is like a mountain standing up in a valley  We have one here in California called Mount Shasta.   4 different people can look at it from different angles, and see something that looks a little different, but if we all share our perspective and humbly listen to others our understanding can be greatly increased.

Winning an argument is useless.  Gaining understanding is the key

We agree it is a mountain. I hope it isn't a volcano about to erupt without warning.

[Alive]

14 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

Umm...

The ice cream in the tale represents something that is irrelevant and yet is made to have relevance in the mind of a member.

Imagination and speculation about member A that affects the following behavior and conversation.

Alive was having a bit of fun.

[Riverwalker]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

The ice cream in the tale represents something that is irrelevant and yet is made to have relevance in the mind of a member.

Imagination and speculation about member A that affects the following behavior and conversation.

Alive was having a bit of fun.

Hmmm that is really very apt then...both in what you said, and the fact that I did not get it...demonstrating your point

[Slug1]

21 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

The concept of iron sharpening iron is that a good healthy debate on scripture by a group of people who are familiar with scripture can "argue" their points and come to a c0ncensus through humbly listening to each one says. A lovely thing when it happens. but more often than not it becomes and ego driven chest bumping head thumping bonanza

To keep such a debate in check we have to do several things

• Realize that we probably do not know it all
• Realize that someone else might be able to add to our understanding
• Set aside the need to defend theologies which we embrace but that are not completely defined in scripture (rapture and end times come to mind)
• Listen(read) then speak(type)
• Be humble.....allow yourself to learn what can be learned
• if it turns into a hamster wheel (lots of action going no where) of endless and fruitless argument walk away....there is no winning here, only loosing

I keep going back to my mountain analogy. Christianity is like a mountain standing up in a valley  We have one here in California called Mount Shasta.   4 different people can look at it from different angles, and see something that looks a little different, but if we all share our perspective and humbly listen to others our understanding can be greatly increased.

Winning an argument is useless.  Gaining understanding is the key

 

For me, the #1 way that any theological discussion/debate does not become a bashing, is when all who are involved, focus on the theologies. However, once the focus turns to or even leans toward the "person" with a theology, then the bashing usually has begun. Such a focus (on/at the person), can even devolve to character attacks to outright attempts at character assassination. 

[Alive]

45 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Hmmm that is really very apt then...both in what you said, and the fact that I did not get it...demonstrating your point

Yes--in a forum where we can't read faces and such nuances when speaking, its even more important to think the best of our brethren. In this, the flesh can get the upper hand easily if we aren't fully awake and alert to those tendencies.

Even when an actual arrow is fired at us, it is entirely up to us to not allow the arrow to hit its mark.

Its actually very easy...Grace required is Grace to be extended.

We are regenerate, born from above sons of the Living God and Christ in us is triumphant!

And when we do fall short--and we all do. Grace coming and going is the economy of the Kingdom that we are a part of....

[TCC]

It is very healthy to get to know where another person is coming from. I have seen a lot online where presumption are made. We will all do it. But being in a path where we learn from others about where they are coming from is the patience and character of love. 

 

Romans 15:2 ²Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up.

 

We can't really do that is we don't know them as well as we might. 

[Daniel Marsh]

On 8/11/2021 at 1:36 PM, Riverwalker said:

The concept of iron sharpening iron is that a good healthy debate on scripture by a group of people who are familiar with scripture can "argue" their points and come to a c0ncensus through humbly listening to each one says. A lovely thing when it happens. but more often than not it becomes and ego driven chest bumping head thumping bonanza

To keep such a debate in check we have to do several things

• Realize that we probably do not know it all
• Realize that someone else might be able to add to our understanding
• Set aside the need to defend theologies which we embrace but that are not completely defined in scripture (rapture and end times come to mind)
• Listen(read) then speak(type)
• Be humble.....allow yourself to learn what can be learned
• if it turns into a hamster wheel (lots of action going no where) of endless and fruitless argument walk away....there is no winning here, only loosing

I keep going back to my mountain analogy. Christianity is like a mountain standing up in a valley  We have one here in California called Mount Shasta.   4 different people can look at it from different angles, and see something that looks a little different, but if we all share our perspective and humbly listen to others our understanding can be greatly increased.

Winning an argument is useless.  Gaining understanding is the key

I think the Navigators view of mentor and student is more closer to the original meaning of iron sharpens iron.