Why Is The Antichrist Coming?

[Diaste]

On 9/4/2021 at 5:54 AM, R. Hartono said:

Foolish virgins left behind hv renewed their oil in the great tribulation but defeated by antichrist. 

The remnant of the woman are the Jews outside Judea who did not flee to the wilderness 

Except for Jews don't hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ so the remnant of the woman are not Jews. 

And how is it that some believers endure the GT but others are raptured out before it begins?

Try as I might, and I did try; ask many people about it, and I did ask many times, I cannot find and no one has pointed out where this group of billions raptured pretrib appear in scripture. 

We have this group:

“These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15For this reason,

they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple;

and the One seated on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

16‘Never again will they hunger, and never will they thirst;

nor will the sun beat down upon them, nor any scorching heat.’

17For the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd.

‘He will lead them to springs of living water,’

and ‘God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’”

And this one:

"Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

These endured the beast.

And this group:

"And I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, beside which stood those who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name."

Whom also endured the beast.

If this important group is mentioned 3 times one would one think it important to mention a group of perhaps billions that were taken off the earth before the beast rose. Why would God leave out a group of purely righteous, perfectly moral, at one with the Lord and wholly spiritual people numbering in the billions who were taken of the earth and out of the grave?

It's because no such group exists. The only one we see with these attributes have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, over come the beast and came out from within GT. 

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, Waggles said:

Let us stick to scripture - where are the verses that contain the word(s) anti-Christ??

I cannot read of The Anti-Christ anywhere in Revelation.

I agree the name 'antichrist' is a misnomer. I only use it for ease of understanding when I talk about this. This 'antichrist figure' is always called 'the beast' in Revelation. Paul use different names which attribute other characteristics to this person.

What is antichrist is the behavior of the one in question. 'Antichrist' is a position, philosophy, epistemology, behavior. John pointed this out. But if we listen to John there's more. 

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared."

Do you see this part?  "just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming"

John is not saying because there are many antichrists now that there is no 'the antichrist'. John is saying yes, 'the antichrist' is coming "as you have heard" and in addition to this many exist now as well.

So the idea of a 'the antichrist', or a singular embodiment of opposition to Christ is an established theme. 

Further we see by the actions of the beast that he is 'antichrist' what with all the blaspheming and killing the believers in Jesus. Can't really get more antichrist than that.

This is the beast and his entire existence is opposition to Christ with the goal of 'instead of Christ' and so the concept of a single individual with all the attributes in opposition to Jesus as the single greatest opponent to Christ in all history is intact.

You may not see the name but the concept survives all attempts to discredit.

 

[Diaste]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

His purpose is to accomplish Gods will.  

He is being sent, not coming on his own. 

He is coming so that Gods final judgment is a JUST one and to make sure everyone receives their JUST rewards or punishments.    

When the final battle has ended, and the White Throne set, every single soul will be held responsible for the decisions they made no matter who they let influence them

and I also believe that 

ESPECIALLY for THIS GENERATION in which ALL KNOWLEDGE AND TRUTH ARE AT our fingertips and simply found the 'SEEKING' ALONG WITH having been gifted the Holy Spirit to lead and guide and having been given warning after warning after warning and example after example of what to look for what to do what not to do what to believe etc. I don't believe there is going to be any EXTRA mercy coming our way aka pre trib rap for all the demonations    

I understand what I believe is very different but I do have scripture for all of it and I have no unanswered questions as all who do not believe this way do.  

God created the heavens.
God created the sons of God, morning stars, cherubs etc.
God created the earth. 
There was a 'society' very much like the one we live in today except without any souls in flesh bodies (as there was no earth until after they were created)
There was one made the full pattern.  Beautiful and wise and at one point was a protector of the mercy seat.  
He was in charge of a kingdom that was ruled by 7 kings that became very prosperous and he became very powerful.  He became so full of himself (pride) that instead of protecting the mercy seat he wanted to sit upon it and he went about convincing/deceiving many of Gods children that he could do all he said he would.  He deceived a full 1/3 of them before 

GOD stopped it all. 

NOW FOR SOME PURE SPECULATION
God was hurt.  God was mad.  God was sad.  God had to do something.  GOD rendered the earth null and void and left it in darkness to make a new plan (think Ice age and death to dinosaurs, Grand Canyon, separation of the land masses, North Pole slightly off earth becoming wobbly, the firmament coming down...)

Having had this belief for many many many years I have given lots of thought to the ways of God and  I THINK that if you look at the number of bugs and fish alone  you can imagine that God has been in the creation business a very long time. Certainly has never been a RUSH on anything has there.  


SO, If you look at how mad God gets (wrath) you realize that with powers such as His,  that there have probably been more than 'a few' complete destructions of past 'projects' (Gods has MADE promises AND HE SWEARS BY HIMSELF as there can be no other SO our security from A COMPLETE future destruction is assured)

At that point God had to make a decision.  Was that to be the end of the "AGE OF AGES" or would there be ANOTHER chance.  AFTER all we are talking about HIS CHILDREN.  WHO HE LOVED FIRST.  Sure, He could have just 'lake of fired it all' right then BUT since those who followed Satan had been deceived (and think 'spiritual bodies' and most likely a more '6th sense' type of communication to go along with it) that instead of taking that route He would instead us the earth as an AGE ENDER and put those sons of God into 'flesh' bodies with minds that could not be 'manipulated' without that person having a say so in the situation and so ALL would be able to CHOSE God or Satan, life or death.  
THIS leaves us with 1/3 who followed Satan some willingly as they are just as bad, some who did because they were stupid and others. 
ALSO we have those who STOOD with God never wavering, never being deceived, never once finding it to be a decision at all. 
THEN there were those who, just as you see today, just don't care one way or the other.  

So there was the plan.  Get the earth back up and running and set the spirits into the flesh bodies, brand new, no memories of who they were or what they did, a clean slate for all and set the circumstances once again to CHOICE.  Accordingly as only God can know, He would place the spirits where they needed to be to 'learn or teach or whatever'. 
HENCE, I knew you, fore ordained, pre destined for those who NEVER LEFT His side and so they are PRE JUSTIFIED and have already received their eternal souls (they just don't know it yet) and THESE like all the prophets GOD CAN USE IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE BECAUSE they PASSED the test. 
We also are told of those who are vessels made for DESTRUCTION.  These are those who just like Satan find Gods righteousness not something they ever want a part of.  If Satan wouldn't have gone bad they would have found a way anyhow they are just evil spirited.  THESE will not wait to be born of woman but will instead be a part of those who 'left their habitation' who will be set in chains in darkness for eternal destruction.  
Then we are left with the MANY ARE CALLED.  These are those who didn't go one way or the other and who hopefully will make a wise choice when 'called to faith aka hear the words of God' this time.  

GOD also, knowing that Satan will not be sitting idlely by has set aside 'the LORDS day' for any souls who find themselves 'not ever hearing truth' or maybe because of the 'freewill nature' of things die to early, or maybe never even make it out of the womb the what ever contingency plan.  

Enough Speculation

So God brought light back upon the earth and separated the waters from the land and the light from the dark and placed the stars and sun and moon in the heavens to set the time and Gods plan so that NO ONE EVER WOULD not believe that GOD IS IN CHARGE AT ALL TIMES OF EVERYTHING BUT MUST LET 'LIFE' play out if in the end HE is to end up with a world full of HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE as He is a HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS GOD.  

SO what SEEMS as unfair to US, comes from a place of pure ignorance of who we were and what we did and what we need to learn and what disciplines are required so that when that JUDGMENT day comes, we will be able to stand in front of God to be judged AND RECEIVE OUR REWARDS AND that some will at least be able to stand up in front of HIM with some hope (PS  pure speculation  if one is evil without any redeeming qualities he wont even be able to get close but instead will go up in a puff of smoke turning to ashes from within just like Satan will)  

GOD IS JUST.  All the rest is on us.  

So Satan has been playing the part that God knew he would play all along.  THE SPECIFICS I don't believe he knew/knows but the OUTCOME, the Plan, the end will come out exactly as He says it will.  


Many are being called and many are trying to stop them.  

Knowing these things does not have anything to do with coming to the Lord and being saved but it sure does help to understand our Creator and why things are the way they are.  

Matthew 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong,  didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

Matthew 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

Matthew 20:15 IS IT NOT LAWFUL FOR ME TO DO WHAT I WILL WITH MINE OWN?  IS THINE EYE EVIL BECAUSE I AM GOOD?
 

16 So the last shall be first, and the first last for many be called, but few chosen.

D

Appreciated but not really addressing the point. I am wondering about the purpose of the beast. What scripture addresses his purpose and what is that purpose?

It has to be unique as the world is already lost to the wiles of the deceiver. 

What is the purpose and why?

[Michael37]

48 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Appreciated but not really addressing the point. I am wondering about the purpose of the beast. What scripture addresses his purpose and what is that purpose?

It has to be unique as the world is already lost to the wiles of the deceiver. 

What is the purpose and why?

Since you are labouring this topic somewhat, Diaste, I will indulge your rhetoric with further ruminations.

By definition the purpose of metaphors is to "carry the meaning across", which of course is the purpose of individual words, numbers, symbols, and images also.

Obviously then, the purpose of any antichrist power is to act against and therefore instead of Christ.

   2Th 2:3-4  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  (4)  Who opposes and exaltes himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I have come across references to Satan as God's Pawn, the idea being that God is playing some fantastic game of chess in which He uses Satan and his cohort as instruments of Judgment. 

The unfairness of this analogy is that God knows where mankind's vulnerabilities lie and if He loves the world enough to give His only begotten Son to die as payment for the sins of each and everyone of us, why would He use His Adversary to negate that?

Volition is the name of the game, if we are drawing on such analogies. The acts of Satan and any antichrist power proceed from their own volition. They oppose God voluntarily, their purpose being to overcome His People in the mistaken belief that in so doing they will overcome God Himself.

Rev 13:7  It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.   

[Diaste]

15 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Since you are labouring this topic somewhat, Diaste, I will indulge your rhetoric with further ruminations.

Well no one is really answering. It seems we are skirting the real purpose. The theme of the answers seem to be, "Because God allows it." or, "To oppose God.".

I don't think I'm laboring. I did start the thread. 

15 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

By definition the purpose of metaphors is to "carry the meaning across", which of course is the purpose of individual words, numbers, symbols, and images also.

Obviously then, the purpose of any antichrist power is to act against and therefore instead of Christ.

   2Th 2:3-4  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  (4)  Who opposes and exaltes himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Yes. This the identifier of the beast. By his acts and behavior we will know him. God is opposed and blasphemed all the time. People worship other gods and several hundred times across the centuries have even proclaimed themselves to be God. 

I think there is a real purpose in the shadow of identity.

15 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

I have come across references to Satan as God's Pawn, the idea being that God is playing some fantastic game of chess in which He uses Satan and his cohort as instruments of Judgment. 

The unfairness of this analogy is that God knows where mankind's vulnerabilities lie and if He loves the world enough to give His only begotten Son to die as payment for the sins of each and everyone of us, why would He use His Adversary to negate that?

I don't see it as a negation, but that of increase.

15 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Volition is the name of the game, if we are drawing on such analogies. The acts of Satan and any antichrist power proceed from their own volition. They oppose God voluntarily, their purpose being to overcome His People in the mistaken belief that in so doing they will overcome God Himself.

Rev 13:7  It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.   

Yes. The true purpose is hidden right there. Satan's purpose may be to wage war and attempt to usurp the Throne. Of course this is a pipe dream as it has been shown to Lucifer usurpation is impossible. God's purpose for allowing the war against the saints is quite different. We should understand this in light of the impossibility of a successful coup and the purposes of God.

[DeighAnn]

43 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Appreciated but not really addressing the point. I am wondering about the purpose of the beast. What scripture addresses his purpose and what is that purpose?

It has to be unique as the world is already lost to the wiles of the deceiver. 

What is the purpose and why?

Just as you don't take an untested gun into battle

God will not be GIVING eternal life/immortality to an untested soul. WOULD YOU?  So how does one test billions of souls at the same time?  Love to hear of a better way if you know one.  

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.  

Matthew 15:9  BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

so much for OSASed being taught AS A DOCTRINE.  


True love CAN NOT be demanded.  It has to come from a place of CHOICE.  So for one to make a choice there has to be one offered.  And with billions all out there at the same time making their choices there has to be a place for those choices to be accommodated right?  There is going to be a GREAT FALLING AWAY, not a great big bunch of Christians 'flesh' murdered but Christian 'souls'.  

So the purpose of the 'evil/the beasts' is to separate them from the 'good/the faithful'.  

Hosea 6:6 For mercy I desire and not sacrifice and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. 

so much for all the different and constantly evolving 'pre trib rap' theories 

Another purpose of the 'testing' is to find out the 'level' of commitment 

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

I am not sure if that is what you are looking for either but it is the entire purpose. It is all about the New Heaven and New Earth and God is hoping all come to repentance so that they will not be consumed for God is a consuming fire and that fire is fed by evil so no evil will make it.  Lessons must be taught to be learned.  How else could it be accomplished?  In the end the 'dead' will be as if they never were and the 'living' will have only the rewards of what happened and no memory of it.  BUT GOD WILL KNOW  who is who and when they were given the COMPLETE FREE WILL TO CHOOSE for themselves how HIGH DID THEY TRULY PUT GOD IN THEIR LIVES.  DID THEY FOLLOW THE FIRST COMMANDMENT OR did they just like to say they did.  WAS it in FACT the words of GOD they held to be most dear or was it the 'beliefs' those words could inspire within them?  WHEN they truly were given TRUTHS of Gods words did they HEAR THEM and adjust accordingly or did they just hold on to what they already knew and believed to be truth? GOD tells us there will always be a remnant that carries His Truth.  Do you know how many people understand what is being taught in that verse?  Do you think that many today consider the infiltration into the scribes and how significant that is to us and to the leading by the Holy Spirit and not by the letter?  How many profess to love God yet when given HIS words reject them like it was no big deal?  Or never consider that EVER idle word...  ALL OF THESE THINGS MAKE A DIFFERENCE.  But we are living in the times of FAMINE and that is why so often even when NO OTHER CHOICE IS POSSIBLE people would rather 'disregard' what God tells us in favor of ??? 

For instance, Satan ALREADY HAD INIQUITY by the time we read of him in the garden.  HOW IS IT THAT NO ONE CAN 'see' AN AGE BEFORE THIS ONE,  EVEN WHEN VERSE AFTER VERSE AFTER VERSE keeps pointing it OUT?  What is that called?  WILLINGLY IGNORANT?  I probably better stop before I throw my computer across the room while I stand and scream OPEN YOUR EYES. 

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:5 And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


 

Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Revelation 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Just as you don't take an untested gun into battle

God will not be GIVING eternal life/immortality to an untested soul. WOULD YOU?  So how does one test billions of souls at the same time?  Love to hear of a better way if you know one.  

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.  

Matthew 15:9  BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

so much for OSASed being taught AS A DOCTRINE.  


True love CAN NOT be demanded.  It has to come from a place of CHOICE.  So for one to make a choice there has to be one offered.  And with billions all out there at the same time making their choices there has to be a place for those choices to be accommodated right?  There is going to be a GREAT FALLING AWAY, not a great big bunch of Christians 'flesh' murdered but Christian 'souls'.  

So the purpose of the 'evil/the beasts' is to separate them from the 'good/the faithful'.  

Hosea 6:6 For mercy I desire and not sacrifice and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. 

so much for all the different and constantly evolving 'pre trib rap' theories 

Another purpose of the 'testing' is to find out the 'level' of commitment 

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

I am not sure if that is what you are looking for either but it is the entire purpose. It is all about the New Heaven and New Earth and God is hoping all come to repentance so that they will not be consumed for God is a consuming fire and that fire is fed by evil so no evil will make it.  Lessons must be taught to be learned.  How else could it be accomplished?  In the end the 'dead' will be as if they never were and the 'living' will have only the rewards of what happened and no memory of it.  BUT GOD WILL KNOW  who is who and when they were given the COMPLETE FREE WILL TO CHOOSE for themselves how HIGH DID THEY TRULY PUT GOD IN THEIR LIVES.  DID THEY FOLLOW THE FIRST COMMANDMENT OR did they just like to say they did.  WAS it in FACT the words of GOD they held to be most dear or was it the 'beliefs' those words could inspire within them?  WHEN they truly were given TRUTHS of Gods words did they HEAR THEM and adjust accordingly or did they just hold on to what they already knew and believed to be truth? GOD tells us there will always be a remnant that carries His Truth.  Do you know how many people understand what is being taught in that verse?  Do you think that many today consider the infiltration into the scribes and how significant that is to us and to the leading by the Holy Spirit and not by the letter?  How many profess to love God yet when given HIS words reject them like it was no big deal?  Or never consider that EVER idle word...  ALL OF THESE THINGS MAKE A DIFFERENCE.  But we are living in the times of FAMINE and that is why so often even when NO OTHER CHOICE IS POSSIBLE people would rather 'disregard' what God tells us in favor of ??? 

For instance, Satan ALREADY HAD INIQUITY by the time we read of him in the garden.  HOW IS IT THAT NO ONE CAN 'see' AN AGE BEFORE THIS ONE,  EVEN WHEN VERSE AFTER VERSE AFTER VERSE keeps pointing it OUT?  What is that called?  WILLINGLY IGNORANT?  I probably better stop before I throw my computer across the room while I stand and scream OPEN YOUR EYES. 

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:5 And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


 

Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Revelation 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Blessings to you.

I'm out.

 

[Waggles]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

This is the beast and his entire existence is opposition to Christ with the goal of 'instead of Christ' and so the concept of a single individual with all the attributes in opposition to Jesus as the single greatest opponent to Christ in all history is intact.

Thus you have revealed what John prophesied - "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming" - here is prophecy concerning what would emerge in opposition to the true gospel: the church of Rome and the Papacy.

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, Diaste said:

We agree here. But this is the justification of the righteous acts of the Most High God to keep as many as possible out of eternal punishment. 

I'm more wondering about your take on the purpose of the beast.

So if God is pressuring non believers that they might turn, what is the beast doing? Are you saying that is from God as well? 

 

Hi Diaste,

So along with desiring to be worshiped we see that Satan is `hell bent` on getting rid of the people of the nation of Israel. Satan has continually tried throughout their history.

If Satan can do that then God`s words will not come to pass.

[Diaste]

11 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Diaste,

So along with desiring to be worshiped we see that Satan is `hell bent` on getting rid of the people of the nation of Israel. Satan has continually tried throughout their history.

If Satan can do that then God`s words will not come to pass.

Thanks. Blessings

I'm out.