God did not teach us these things

[Dennis1209]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:04 PM, enoob57 said:

I commend your learning! 
Phanuel (angel) - Wikipedia

Good Morning there enoob57,

This is also associated with extra biblical texts, and please bear with me here.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.  

In Heaven there is a hierarchy of spiritual beings and government [sometimes called the Divine Council], God ordained government for humanity on earth. 

It is thought by some scholar's, there were originally five archangels, with Lucifer's fall now makes four. Psalm 147:4 (KJV) He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. If all the stars in the universe have names, every heavenly spiritual being also has a name. 

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 

Lucifer was the most glorious, powerful and highest spiritual being God created. Among other things; it's thought he was heavens worship and music director; and the cherub that reflected the glory of God back to the Lord and His throne.

Revelation 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

 The Bible explains itself, but do we always understand the meaning and symbolism, are there dual meanings, is it figurative or literal? Some postulate these Beasts represent the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. 

In addition to their other duties, I suspect they represent watchers over creation; lion [wild beasts]; calf [domestic animals]; man [humanity]; flying eagle [fowl of the air]. If this is so, where is the 'watcher' over the fish and reptile kingdom, the serpent? 

Where do we find a plausible explanation for the Beast's of Rev. 4:7? 

 

[Hopefully]

1 minute ago, enoob57 said:

all other scholastic endeavor should be held apart from Scripture and God The Holy Spirit blesses obedience

 

I agree. Does this mean people can’t read Enoch and ask questions or make statements about it?

Look at what is done with the actual truth here Gods word. Why is there ALWAYS so much debate and arguing over it? 

I do not like arguing and debating all the time so when I see things I disagree with I don’t comment. I saw myself being pulled into the spirit of debate when I joined and God helped me pull myself out. 

 I’d like to have normal conversation here.  The topic does not break the terms of service. 
 

I wanted to talk about sin but it’s been turned into a debate on the validity of a book where it’s known many Christians have no problems reading or discussing the book. That’s a given so why not ignore it instead of making it a debate whereas the original author also believes the Bible is the book of truth this we agree on so what more is there to prove?

If people  don’t like Enoch why get in a discussion about it just to argue?

[Hopefully]

The Bible says 

“If any town refuses to accept you or refuses to listen to you, then leave that town and shake the dust off your feet as a warning to them.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭6:11‬ ‭
 

Im not going to do this on my own post but it’s definitely what I do on others.  It says when people won’t listen leave it doesn’t say stay and argue until they agree but that’s what happens here all the time. 
 

We can not control others if we are not deemed an authority over them. The Authority allows the discussion of extra biblical books here, but we have agreed Jesus Christ is who we have faith in while doing so. 

 

[Dennis1209]

2 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

I agree. Does this mean people can’t read Enoch and ask questions or make statements about it?

Look at what is done with the actual truth here Gods word. Why is there ALWAYS so much debate and arguing over it? 

I do not like arguing and debating all the time so when I see things I disagree with I don’t comment. I saw myself being pulled into the spirit of debate when I joined and God helped me pull myself out. 

 I’d like to have normal conversation here.  The topic does not break the terms of service. 
 

I wanted to talk about sin but it’s been turned into a debate on the validity of a book where it’s known many Christians have no problems reading or discussing the book. That’s a given so why not ignore it instead of making it a debate whereas the original author also believes the Bible is the book of truth this we agree on so what more is there to prove?

If people  don’t like Enoch why get in a discussion about it just to argue?

Well said and you are spot on. I'm growing weary of discussion and debating also. My intent is not to argue or convince anyone I have the correct theology. It's only my thoughts and systematic studies of biblical topics. 

Through deep study of the Bible, gaining knowledge, wisdom and maturing as Christians. Reading what other Christians, scholars, ancient Jews, extra biblical texts, etc. have to say... You gain perspective on all sides of the theology debate; then compare it to what the Bible actually says; forming your own hermeneutics.

I didn't even delve into the beliefs of every ancient civilization globally throughout history. The myths of Titians, demi-gods, super human giants, the Epic of Gilgamesh, Mesopotamian literature. Were these myths grounded from actual history, or some dude eating bad mushrooms and spreading his hallucination globally?

[Kelly2363]

12 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

I agree. Does this mean people can’t read Enoch and ask questions or make statements about it?

Look at what is done with the actual truth here Gods word. Why is there ALWAYS so much debate and arguing over it? 

I do not like arguing and debating all the time so when I see things I disagree with I don’t comment. I saw myself being pulled into the spirit of debate when I joined and God helped me pull myself out. 

 I’d like to have normal conversation here.  The topic does not break the terms of service. 
 

I wanted to talk about sin but it’s been turned into a debate on the validity of a book where it’s known many Christians have no problems reading or discussing the book. That’s a given so why not ignore it instead of making it a debate whereas the original author also believes the Bible is the book of truth this we agree on so what more is there to prove?

If people  don’t like Enoch why get in a discussion about it just to argue?

 

Again as you have likely blocked me then you may not see this comment.

Many Christians are harmful, and extremely damaging people. If you don't believe me I could cite seven instances to my own witness where believers have lost their lives because of the harm they have done or has been done to them in churches in the sight of other members and always set into the unspoken or spoken approval of Christians. Not the subject of debate to be agreed - but then in truth neither is blasphemy unless it is roundly condemned and thrown into the fire. 

Beside that this OP gave an opportunity to show what the connective tissue is between this book as a type of effect and a doctrine cited as Divine Council is. By what I have seen and the price paid just in my own witness I would say that most believers are beyond repentance. The change that has come into the world and hence the church in the last decade is likely to be the herald to the tribulation. And the USA is likely to precede that outcome as a warning to other nations due to the fact that almost the entirety of heretical doctrines that have been brought upon the churches across the world in some measure have come out of the churches in America over the last 50 years.

There may be no room for a conversation after all. 

 

[Hopefully]

2 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Were these myths grounded from actual history, or some dude eating bad mushrooms and spreading his hallucination globally?

I am a person who has no problem saying I don’t know, but I love to learn. 

No book can teach me to walk away from Christ because I did not find Christ in a book. Christ found me.

This is why I’m willing to hear and learn anything that is not speaking against Christ. 

[Hopefully]

I find it interesting that astronomy is on that list because From the sample I have seen most astronomers don’t believe in God and that’s how we got the Big Bang Theory. 
 

“The teaching about the cross seems foolish to those who are lost. But to us who are being saved it is the power of God. As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise. I will confuse the understanding of the intelligent.” Isaiah 29:14 So what does this say about the philosopher, the law expert, or anyone in this world who is skilled in making clever arguments? God has made the wisdom of the world look foolish.

This is what God in his wisdom decided: Since the world did not find him through its own wisdom, he used the message that sounds foolish to save those who believe it. The Jews ask for miraculous signs, and the Greeks want wisdom. But this is the message we tell everyone: Christ was killed on a cross. This message is a problem for Jews, and to other people it is nonsense. But Christ is God’s power and wisdom to the people God has chosen, both Jews and Greeks. Even the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom. Even the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:18-25‬ 

 

[other one]

13 hours ago, David1701 said:

Most scholars believe that much of the so-called Book of Enoch was written AFTER the New Testament (in other words, at least some of the quotes are probably the Book of Enoch quoting the Bible), although some of it was written between 80 and 160 B.C..

The Book of Enoch also likely draws upon earlier sources that no longer exist.

there are three books called Enoch and books two and three were written after the original letters of the New Testament.  Actually 3 Enoch is Jewish Mysticism and studying that is sorcery.

1 Enoch was written before Jesus came and we know because there are several partial manuscripts of it within the dead sea scrolls.  It has always been a part of the Ethiopian Bible.   And as is said it is quoted in the New Testament.    But more important, contexts are included in much of the writing of the New Testament because it was so widely read (heard) by both scholars and the general public.   It was part of the accepted cosmology of the time period.

[David1701]

13 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Actually, you are once more wrong.  The third primary Jewish sect, the Essenes, protected a number of writings in the caves in and around Qumran also known as the Dead Sea Scrolls.  Most scholars know the book of Enoch was written before Jesus time since he quoted from it in His Preaching.

I've already refuted these false assertions of yours in the links I provided, I see no reason to carry on anymore conversations with you.

Here's a quote from a short article in Encylopaedia Britannica.

"No fragments of the longest portion of the work (chapters 37–71), however, were found among the Qumrān writings. This has led scholars to theorize that this section was perhaps written in the 2nd century AD by a Jewish Christian who wished to imbue his own eschatological speculations with the authority of Enoch, and added his work to four older apocryphal Enoch writings."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/First-Book-of-Enoch

[David1701]

33 minutes ago, other one said:

there are three books called Enoch and books two and three were written after the original letters of the New Testament.  Actually 3 Enoch is Jewish Mysticism and studying that is sorcery.

1 Enoch was written before Jesus came and we know because there are several partial manuscripts of it within the dead sea scrolls.  It has always been a part of the Ethiopian Bible.   And as is said it is quoted in the New Testament.    But more important, contexts are included in much of the writing of the New Testament because it was so widely read (heard) by both scholars and the general public.   It was part of the accepted cosmology of the time period.

See my reply to another poster.