Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD

[Marilyn C]

On 10/10/2021 at 1:32 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

 

Finally Marilyn, I'm curious concerning what you said about my "other scriptures - 2 Chron, 36: 16 - 21, Lam. 1: 12, 14 - 16, 2: 22,  4: 11,  Jer. 25: 8 - 11, 46: 1.2. 10 - 13.  50: 17, they do not fit the criteria."  What is it about these scriptures that you feel don't fit the criteria of the Word rightly divided?

As to Ez. 30 & all your other scriptures they clearly show who is involved in the judgments of the past.

[Keras]

Listen: It is the thunder of vast forces. Isaiah 17:12

Isaiah 18:3 All the inhabitants of the world will see the signs and hear the sounds of the Lord’s rebuke.  Isaiah 17:12-14

 Isaiah 29:5b-6 Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord with a thunder of great noise, earthquakes and storm tempests of devouring fire.

Isaiah 66:6 That roar from the city, the uproar in the holy Land, it is the sound of the Lord dealing retribution to His enemies.

Jeremiah 4:23-29 At the sound of approaching disaster every town is in flight. People crawl into thickets and scramble up among the cliffs to hide. The earth is in chaos, the sky blackened, the hills are shaking and reeling and everybody disappears, even the birds and animals have gone. The whole Land is desolate, for the purpose of the Lord has been made known and He will not relent or change it.

Jeremiah 25:30-31 The Lord roars from on high, He thunders from His dwelling place, He roars loudly against His Land, against all the inhabitants of the Land. The great noise reaches to the ends of the earth, as the Lord brings His judgement against all the nations and the godless peoples will die. Isa. 33:10-12

Jeremiah 50:22 & 25 & 46 The sound of great destruction thunders in the Land. The Lord has opened His armoury and brought out the weapon of His wrath, it is His work to do against the Babylonish nations. The earth quakes and the noise is heard throughout the world.

Ancient Babylon was destroyed by Cyrus, he was the Lord’s instrument then, but this prophecy of Judgement by the Lord Himself, refers to those nations that have now adopted beliefs and practices as a type of Babylon.

Jeremiah 51:55 The advancing wave booms and roars like mighty waters, for the Lord is despoiling Babylon. [the ungodly nations] Isaiah 14:22-27, Revelation 18

2 Peter 3:7 & 10 The Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly. On that Day, the sky will disappear with a great rushing sound and flames will envelope the earth, all in it will be brought to judgement.   Ref: REB. Some verses abridged and paraphrased.

 

‘The great noise reaches to the ends of the earth’, All peoples will hear it and be terrified. It will strike the Middle East at mid day. Zephaniah 2:4

‘the uproar from the holy Land is the sound of the Lord dealing retribution to His enemies’, destroying those who attack Israel and punishing His enemies worldwide. Psalms 94:1-7, Isaiah 66:15-17, Ezekiel 7:2-14, Micah 4:11-12, Hebrews 10:27

‘People crawl into thickets and caves to hide’, The parallel prophecy is the Sixth Seal; Revelation 6:15 and Isaiah 2:21

‘the sky will disappear with a great sound’, Also paralleled by the Sixth Seal; Revelation  6:14, Isaiah 34:4, 2 Peter 3:10

‘Sudden punishment from the Lord – thunder, earthquakes, storms of fire’, This can only be fulfilled by a Coronal Mass Ejection, ‘the weapon of His wrath’, a sunstrike that suddenly hits the earth and it will literally cause all those graphically prophesied effects. Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4:1 & 3

 Deuteronomy 32:34-43 & 22  The Lord has a punishment in His storehouse, awaiting the Day of vengeance, the Day My enemies make a mistake will be their doom. For fire is set ablaze by My anger, it envelopes the earth and penetrates deep underground.

              

[not an echo]

On 10/10/2021 at 1:11 AM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/9/2021 at 10:02 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

Well, a good night's sleep certainly helps a lot.

Concerning your third paragraph, "So I believe we need to start with what actually is the Day of the Lord, (looming as you say)."  Let me just clarify that what Joel prophesied of concerning Israel in Joel 1:1-2:11 (just before God's call to them to repent) was what I have referred to as the first Day of the LORD prophesied of by Joel.  And, it was looming in that day, and it came to pass.  As I have said concerning the other Day of the LORD that Joel prophesied of, beginning in 2:28, it is in my opinion looming even now, in our day.

Concerning the first of your key points, "1. more severe than any other in history or never will be again."  I would just say that the second Day of the LORD that Joel prophesies of is the one that will quite naturally fit this criteria, as it will be worldwide in scope.  The first Day of the LORD that Joel prophesies of is against Israel and the nations surrounding it.

Concerning the second of your key points, "2. deliverance for Israel and judgment upon the rebellious."  Does it sound like to you that what Joel prophesied in 1:1-2:11 (just before God's call to them to repent, which they did not) is a time of "deliverance for Israel"?

Concerning the last six words of your reply, "they do not fit the criteria"  are you meaning the criteria of your uncle's writings?

 

Yes sleep is so important and with our `daylight saving time` over here putting our clocks ahead an hour is not good for the cows let alone messing up our sleep.

So let`s just look at your first points. 

1. Joel 2: 2 talks about ` a people come, great and strong, the like of whom has never been; nor will ever be any such after them.` Thus it is not Assyria nor Babylon.

2. Deliverance for Israel. & judgment upon the rebellious.  Joel 2: 20 `but I will remove far from you the northern army, and will drive him away into a barren and desolate land....`  

 

The `criteria` is what I see in scripture as to the Day of the Lord in the end times.

Hello Marilyn,

It's something isn't it, how these days, we can so easily communicate with others, even on the other side of the earth!

Concerning your point 1., the translation you use of Joel 2:2 evidently reads in part, "a people come, great and strong, the like of whom has never been; nor will ever be any such after them."  And, based on this you say, "Thus it is not Assyria nor Babylon."  The translation I've been using (KJV) reads in part, "a great people and a strong;  there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."  Based on this translation, it can be Assyria or Babylon, huh?  Now, in all fairness, I know that this is just one point.  But, we have got to look at all the various points, huh?

When I look at Joel 2:2 from the NAS, it reads in part, "So there is a great and mighty people;  there has never been anything like it, nor will there be again after it to the years of many generations."  This translation has been touted to straighten out the errors in the KJV.  When I look at the same portion from the NIV, it reads, "a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come."  This translation has also been touted to straighten out the errors in the KJV.  But, as can be seen, the NAS and the NIV don't even agree.  Hmmm.  I wonder what translation will straighten out the errors of these two translations (or all the others), and finally, finally, settle it?  No wonder that in recent years, the KJV has been touted itself as the standard to which all other translations are compared.  Something that we can all be thankful for is that we don't have to rely simply on this or that translation of this or that verse and/or even the original words and their various definitions concerning what the truth of the matter is.  We have the whole Bible, and history, and, and, and Christ's Spirit.  And, in our ongoing efforts to rightly divide the Word of Truth (especially concerning prophecy), we can all the while keep our focus on the main thing---that we are ready, come what may.

I don't want to get sidetracked on translations, but before continuing, I have been curious concerning that excerpt from your uncle's book.  Do you know what translation it was that he found what he wrote concerning Zephaniah 1:14-18?  Notice below, the first words you had put in bold...

====================

So I believe we need to start with what actually is the Day of the Lord, (looming as you say). Here is an except from my uncle`s book, `Fires before the Dawn.` (out of print)

Invariably scripture connects this time with tribulation and suffering. Zepheniah (1: 14 - 18) provides one of the most concise descriptive accounts, as being more severe than any other in history. This is confirmed by Jeremiah (30: 7), Daniel (12: 1) and Joel (2: 2). Jesus Himself warned "For there shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning to this time, nor ever shall be." (Matt. 24: 21). John succinctly epitomises it as `The Day of the wrath of God.` ((Rev. 6: 15 - 17) 

====================

Concerning your point 2., your take on this does not fit the "Then..." condition (2:18), which pertained to God's clear call to the Israelites to repent (2:12-17), which they did not do.  If they had of repented, God would have "removed far off from [them] the northern army" (2:20) and they would not have been destroyed.  I think of Jesus' words the week of His crucifixion, from Matthew 23:

 37  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT!

 38  Behold, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT TO YOU DESOLATE.

Concerning your last sentence, and the last four words of it, "The `criteria` is what I see in scripture as to the Day of the Lord in the end times,"  are you by these words making an acknowledgement that there is indeed a differentiation to be made between the Day of the LORD that came upon the Israelites in the 6th and 8th centuries B.C. and the Day of the LORD that will come upon the world "in the end times"?  I remain curious concerning you position here, as I have heretofore been deeply impressed that your position is one of denying this.  It would probably help our discussion if you would just state your position on this outright.

Also, concerning your take on "but I will remove far from you the northern army, and will drive him away into a barren and desolate land....,"  at what specific time in the last days are you thinking that this will be fulfilled?  I've been wondering and kinda supposing, but, I don't want to have to guess.  It would probably help our discussion if you would just state your position on this outright as well.   

Edited June 8, 2023 by not an echo

[not an echo]

On 10/10/2021 at 1:15 AM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/9/2021 at 10:02 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

 

Finally Marilyn, I'm curious concerning what you said about my "other scriptures - 2 Chron, 36: 16 - 21, Lam. 1: 12, 14 - 16, 2: 22,  4: 11,  Jer. 25: 8 - 11, 46: 1.2. 10 - 13.  50: 17, they do not fit the criteria."  What is it about these scriptures that you feel don't fit the criteria of the Word rightly divided?

As to Ez. 30 & all your other scriptures they clearly show who is involved in the judgments of the past.

Meaning???

[Marilyn C]

53 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Meaning???

I replied to your question about all the other scriptures you posted.

As to Ez. 30 & all your other scriptures they clearly show who is involved in the judgments of the past.

All those other scriptures, besides Joel 2 clearly show that it was Assyria or Babylon that invaded Israel. Joel 2 on the other hand reveals the far northern army. (Joel 2: 20)

[not an echo]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:08 PM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/11/2021 at 10:39 PM, not an echo said:

Meaning???

I replied to your question about all the other scriptures you posted.

As to Ez. 30 & all your other scriptures they clearly show who is involved in the judgments of the past.

All those other scriptures, besides Joel 2 clearly show that it was Assyria or Babylon that invaded Israel. Joel 2 on the other hand reveals the far northern army. (Joel 2: 20)

Hello Marilyn,

The way our discussions have went, I'm kind of figuring that you must have overlooked the reply I made to you just preceding the one that you here replied to.  My two posts were just minutes apart, so, if you didn't scan up a little bit, I guess it would have been easy to miss.  I remain curious concerning your reply to it, as there is a direct correlation between it and what you say above...

[Marilyn C]

On 10/12/2021 at 2:05 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

It's something isn't it, how these days, we can so easily communicate with others, even on the other side of the earth!

Concerning your point 1., the translation you use of Joel 2:2 evidently reads in part, "a people come, great and strong, the like of whom has never been; nor will ever be any such after them."  And, based on this you say, "Thus it is not Assyria nor Babylon."  The translation I've been using (KJV) reads in part, "a great people and a strong;  there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."  Based on this translation, it can be Assyria or Babylon, huh?  Now, in all fairness, I know that this is just one point.  But, we have got to look at all the various points, huh?

When I look at Joel 2:2 from the NAS, it reads in part, "So there is a great and mighty people;  there has never been anything like it, nor will there be again after it to the years of many generations."  This translation has been touted to straighten out the errors in the KJV.  When I look at the same portion from the NIV, it reads, "a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come."  This translation has also been touted to straighten out the errors in the KJV.  But, as can be seen, the NAS and the NIV don't even agree.  Hmmm.  I wonder what translation will straighten out the errors of these two translations (or all the others), and finally, finally, settle it?  No wonder that in recent years, the KJV has been touted itself as the standard to which all other translations are compared.  Something that we can all be thankful for is that we don't have to rely simply on this or that translation of this or that verse and/or even the original words and their various definitions concerning what the truth of the matter is.  We have the whole Bible, and history, and, and, and Christ's Spirit.  And, in our ongoing efforts to rightly divide the Word of Truth (especially concerning prophecy), we can all the while keep our focus on the main thing---that we are ready, come what may.

I don't want to get sidetracked on translations, but before continuing, I have been curious concerning that excerpt from your uncle's book.  Do you know what translation it was that he found what he wrote concerning Zephaniah 1:14-18?  Notice below, the first words you had put in bold...

====================

So I believe we need to start with what actually is the Day of the Lord, (looming as you say). Here is an except from my uncle`s book, `Fires before the Dawn.` (out of print)

Invariably scripture connects this time with tribulation and suffering. Zepheniah (1: 14 - 18) provides one of the most concise descriptive accounts, as being more severe than any other in history. This is confirmed by Jeremiah (30: 7), Daniel (12: 1) and Joel (2: 2). Jesus Himself warned "For there shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning to this time, nor ever shall be." (Matt. 24: 21). John succinctly epitomises it as `The Day of the wrath of God.` ((Rev. 6: 15 - 17) 

====================

Concerning your point 2., your take on this does not fit the "Then..." condition (2:18), which pertained to God's clear call to the Israelites to repent (2:12-17), which they did not do.  If they had of repented, God would have "removed far off from [them] the northern army" (2:20) and they would not have been destroyed.  I think of Jesus' words the week of His crucifixion, from Matthew 23:

 37  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT!

 38  Behold, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT TO YOU DESOLATE.

Concerning your last sentence, and the last four words of it, "The `criteria` is what I see in scripture as to the Day of the Lord in the end times",  are you by these words making an acknowledgement that there is indeed a differentiation to be made between the Day of the LORD that came upon the Israelites in the 6th and 8th centuries B.C. and the Day of the LORD that will come upon the world "in the end times"?  I remain curious concerning you position here, as I have heretofore been deeply impressed that your position is one of denying this.  It would probably help our discussion if you would just state your position on this out right.

Also, concerning your take on "but I will remove far from you the northern army, and will drive him away into a barren and desolate land....",  at what specific time in the last days are you thinking that this will be fulfilled?  I've been wondering and kinda supposing, but, I don't want to have to guess.  It would probably help our discussion if you would just state your position on this out right as well.   

Hi not an echo,

Sorry to have missed your post there. And yes it is wonderful to speak to others in the Body wherever they are and discuss God`s word. Truly a special time and I value it immensely. Now to your comments.

I have looked again at your scriptures and will write concerning them.

2 Chron.36: 16 - 21 The Chaldeans, Babylonian exile.

Lam. 1: 12, 14 - 16,  2: 22,  4: 11, gone into captivity, cooked their children. 

Jer. 25: 8 - 11 Neb, King of Babylon.

46: 1,2. Egypt, Pharoah, king of Egypt.

46: 10 - 13, Neb, king of Babylon would come & strike Egypt.

50: 17, king of Assyria & Neb, king of Babylon.

Ez. 12 - 13, Babylon, 

30, Egypt.

 

See in all those scriptures the nations are named and what God was doing regarding them.

 

Then in Joel 2 we do not read of a name of a nation, only a place - the northern army. And that in Hebrew refers to the far northern quarter of the earth. 

It is the beginning of the Day of the Lord. 

 

The Prophet Ezekiel gives the names of those nations in the army, while the Prophet Joel tells us when this will occur. And that is very helpful for us as believers in the Body of Christ, for we do not enter `the Day of the Lord.` Thus the rapture will be when the great army is gathering outside the Golan Heights on the Syrian side. 

[not an echo]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:42 PM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/11/2021 at 10:35 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

It's something isn't it, how these days, we can so easily communicate with others, even on the other side of the earth!

Concerning your point 1., the translation you use of Joel 2:2 evidently reads in part, "a people come, great and strong, the like of whom has never been; nor will ever be any such after them."  And, based on this you say, "Thus it is not Assyria nor Babylon."  The translation I've been using (KJV) reads in part, "a great people and a strong;  there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."  Based on this translation, it can be Assyria or Babylon, huh?  Now, in all fairness, I know that this is just one point.  But, we have got to look at all the various points, huh?

When I look at Joel 2:2 from the NAS, it reads in part, "So there is a great and mighty people;  there has never been anything like it, nor will there be again after it to the years of many generations."  This translation has been touted to straighten out the errors in the KJV.  When I look at the same portion from the NIV, it reads, "a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come."  This translation has also been touted to straighten out the errors in the KJV.  But, as can be seen, the NAS and the NIV don't even agree.  Hmmm.  I wonder what translation will straighten out the errors of these two translations (or all the others), and finally, finally, settle it?  No wonder that in recent years, the KJV has been touted itself as the standard to which all other translations are compared.  Something that we can all be thankful for is that we don't have to rely simply on this or that translation of this or that verse and/or even the original words and their various definitions concerning what the truth of the matter is.  We have the whole Bible, and history, and, and, and Christ's Spirit.  And, in our ongoing efforts to rightly divide the Word of Truth (especially concerning prophecy), we can all the while keep our focus on the main thing---that we are ready, come what may.

I don't want to get sidetracked on translations, but before continuing, I have been curious concerning that excerpt from your uncle's book.  Do you know what translation it was that he found what he wrote concerning Zephaniah 1:14-18?  Notice below, the first words you had put in bold...

====================

So I believe we need to start with what actually is the Day of the Lord, (looming as you say). Here is an except from my uncle`s book, `Fires before the Dawn.` (out of print)

Invariably scripture connects this time with tribulation and suffering. Zepheniah (1: 14 - 18) provides one of the most concise descriptive accounts, as being more severe than any other in history. This is confirmed by Jeremiah (30: 7), Daniel (12: 1) and Joel (2: 2). Jesus Himself warned "For there shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning to this time, nor ever shall be." (Matt. 24: 21). John succinctly epitomises it as `The Day of the wrath of God.` ((Rev. 6: 15 - 17) 

====================

Concerning your point 2., your take on this does not fit the "Then..." condition (2:18), which pertained to God's clear call to the Israelites to repent (2:12-17), which they did not do.  If they had of repented, God would have "removed far off from [them] the northern army" (2:20) and they would not have been destroyed.  I think of Jesus' words the week of His crucifixion, from Matthew 23:

 37  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT!

 38  Behold, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT TO YOU DESOLATE.

Concerning your last sentence, and the last four words of it, "The `criteria` is what I see in scripture as to the Day of the Lord in the end times",  are you by these words making an acknowledgement that there is indeed a differentiation to be made between the Day of the LORD that came upon the Israelites in the 6th and 8th centuries B.C. and the Day of the LORD that will come upon the world "in the end times"?  I remain curious concerning you position here, as I have heretofore been deeply impressed that your position is one of denying this.  It would probably help our discussion if you would just state your position on this out right.

Also, concerning your take on "but I will remove far from you the northern army, and will drive him away into a barren and desolate land....",  at what specific time in the last days are you thinking that this will be fulfilled?  I've been wondering and kinda supposing, but, I don't want to have to guess.  It would probably help our discussion if you would just state your position on this out right as well.   

Hi not an echo,

Sorry to have missed your post there. And yes it is wonderful to speak to others in the Body wherever they are and discuss God`s word. Truly a special time and I value it immensely. Now to your comments.

I have looked again at your scriptures and will write concerning them.

2 Chron.36: 16 - 21 The Chaldeans, Babylonian exile.

Lam. 1: 12, 14 - 16,  2: 22,  4: 11, gone into captivity, cooked their children. 

Jer. 25: 8 - 11 Neb, King of Babylon.

46: 1,2. Egypt, Pharoah, king of Egypt.

46: 10 - 13, Neb, king of Babylon would come & strike Egypt.

50: 17, king of Assyria & Neb, king of Babylon.

Ez. 12 - 13, Babylon, 

30, Egypt.

 

See in all those scriptures the nations are named and what God was doing regarding them.

 

Then in Joel 2 we do not read of a name of a nation, only a place - the northern army. And that in Hebrew refers to the far northern quarter of the earth. 

Hello Marilyn,

I thought you had probably missed it.

So, we know that Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon was ultimately the rod used of God to effect the chastisement that He brought upon the southern kingdom, or Judah.  Moreover, for examples, we know that Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon is referred to as being "from the north (H6828)" (Ezek. 26:7), "Out of the north (H6828)" (Jer. 1:14), and "of the north (H6828)" (Jer. 25:9).  Note the Hebrew word, which is used well over 100 times in the OT, without anything consistent that would support that it is a reference to Russia whatsoever:

Strong's Concordance H6828

Original Word: צָפוֹן

Transliteration: tsâphôwn

Phonetic Spelling: tsaw-fone'

or צָפֹן; from H6845; properly, hidden, i.e. dark; used only of the north as a quarter (gloomy and unknown); north(-ern, side, -ward, wind).

Concerning "the northern (H6830) army" of Joel 2:20, the Hebrew word is:

Strong's Concordance H6830

Original Word: צְפוֹנִי

Transliteration: tsᵉphôwnîy

Phonetic Spelling: tsef-o-nee'

from H6828; northern; northern.

This word is only translated "northern" and is used one other time in Scripture, in Jeremiah 15:12, which I don't see as holding any support for your position.  Personally, I think it is a good thing to look into all the possibilities, but I'm not seeing anything related to Joel 2:20 and what you have put forth concerning it that supports your position.

On 10/15/2021 at 7:42 PM, Marilyn C said:

It is the beginning of the Day of the Lord. 

I'm still wondering if you affirm or deny that there is any other Day of the LORD spoken of in Scripture, other than what is yet to be fulfilled.

On 10/15/2021 at 7:42 PM, Marilyn C said:

https://worthychristianforumscore-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/monthly_2021_10/DOL.jpg.82106b803d70335f7d9ea75aaf917ef3.jpg

 

I do like your illustration, and I agree, I think.   I certainly agree that the rapture will precede the future Day of the LORD.  I also agree with the "Tribulation" if you are meaning the whole of Daniel's 70th Week.  I also agree that the Day of the LORD takes in everything that will happen after the rapture, through Christ's Millennial Kingdom, and the Last Judgment (which I would suppose you include as well).  I guess my only question, as far as what appears, is what particular WAR you are talking about?  Concisely, I understand the rapture to happen with the opening of the 6th Seal, after which there will be at least a five month period (Rev. 9:5, 10) preceding the WAR of Revelation 9:13-21---which I indeed see as preceding the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week.  Is this the WAR you are indicating?

With that said, here is one of my charts, by which you can see our basic similarities.  Note especially the span that I have THE DAY OF THE LORD taking in, which closely matches yours:

On 10/15/2021 at 7:42 PM, Marilyn C said:

The Prophet Ezekiel gives the names of those nations in the army, while the Prophet Joel tells us when this will occur. And that is very helpful for us as believers in the Body of Christ, for we do not enter `the Day of the Lord.` Thus the rapture will be when the great army is gathering outside the Golan Heights on the Syrian side. 

IMHO, whatever Scripture you have to support your particular view concerning "the great army,"  there is not any support for this in the particular prophecy of Joel you keep appealing to, that I have been able to see---but I'm still looking.

It's my (past my) bedtime again...

Edited June 8, 2023 by not an echo

[not an echo]

20 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

7 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

Let me just say that (i agree)  that the Assyrians and Babylonians were instruments of God's wrath,  but not as a fulfillment of any day of the Lord,  especially regarding Joel 2:10-11.

What Joel says in verses 1 & 2 about the DOTL, precludes the notion that another one happening that would be worse than any historical ones that might have happened in the 8th and 6th centuries BC.  I believe that when the (future) prophesied day of the Lord comes,  it will be the one that fulfills the words of Joel 2:11, 

for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

For I believe that time is the same (one and only) time spoken of in verses 1 and 2:

Joe 2:1-2 KJV ¹ Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; ² A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more like it,...

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, not an echo said:

Hello Da Puppers,

First of all, I would really like to get any discussion(s) concerning Joel's prophecies and the Day of the LORD over to my thread, Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/270772-joels-prophecies-and-the-day-of-the-lord/).  One of the reasons I worked up that thread was in hopes that it would be of a help to keep this thread more on track.  I believe you must understand, but, I also want to be considerate of your reply.

I'm kinda troubled by your reply, as I see it to be in serious conflict with Scripture.  I can't help it.  You open with the statement (and note what I have emphasized), "Let me just say...that the Assyrians and Babylonians were instruments of God's wrath,  but not as a fulfillment of any day of the Lord,  especially regarding Joel 2:10-11."

For times sake, I'm going to do a copy and paste from my above mentioned thread, edited for this post.  Consider from the end of Ezekiel 12, leading into the first of chapter 13...

CHAPTER 12

 26  Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

 27  Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth IS FOR MANY DAYS TO COME, and he prophesieth OF TIMES THAT ARE FAR OFF.

 28  Therefore say unto them, THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD;  there shall none of My words BE PROLONGED ANY MORE, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.

CHAPTER 13

  1   And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

  2   Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD;

  3   THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD;  Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

  4   O Israel, thy prophets are like foxes in the deserts.

  5   Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in

THE DAY OF THE LORD.

And Da Puppers, even for Egypt it was to be the Day of the LORD.  In Ezekiel 30 notice (and especially how it is referenced to Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon in verse 10)...

  1   The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,

  2   Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD;  Howl ye, Woe worth the day!

  3   For the day is near, even THE DAY OF THE LORD is near, a cloudy day;  it shall be the time of the heathen.

  4   And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.

  5   Ethiopia, and Libya, and Lydia, and all the mingled people, and Chub, and the men of the land that is in league, shall fall with them by the sword.

  6   Thus saith the LORD;  They also that uphold Egypt shall fall;  and the pride of her power shall come down:  from the tower of Syene shall they fall in it by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.

  7   And they shall be desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities shall be in the midst of the cities that are wasted.

  8   And they shall know that I am the LORD, when I have set a fire in Egypt, and when all her helpers shall be destroyed.

  9   In that day shall messengers go forth from Me in ships to make the careless Ethiopians afraid, and great pain shall come upon them, as in the day of Egypt:  FOR, LO, IT COMETH.

 10  Thus saith the Lord GOD;  I will also make the multitude of Egypt to cease BY THE HAND OF NEBUCHADREZZAR KING OF BABYLON.

 11  He and his people with him, THE TERRIBLE OF THE NATIONS, SHALL BE BROUGHT TO DESTROY THE LAND:  and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain.

There is an extensive amount of Scripture, the context of which supports that what God did to the Israelite nation (and even its neighboring countries) in the 8th and 6th centuries B.C. was referred to as the Day of the LORD, and similar.  Moreover, this is reinforced by the section of Joel's prophecies that I have consistently indicated.

Concerning your appeal to Joel 2:11...

for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"

...my first thought is that ANY Day of the LORD that is brought upon any nation, any individual, or the world would go into the category of "great and terrible;  and who can abide it?"  As I have said elsewhere, my earthly father didn't have any such thing as an easy spanking.  I think he got that from his mother, my grandmother, who once stripped my little six year old legs (bare) with a switch she made me cut---just for talking back to her!!!  I ain't ever forgot it.  And, I never talked back to her another time!!!  She broke me of that.  But, I'm the better for it.  Interestingly, it has been long noted that God broke the Israelites of their idolatry.

Finally, concerning my position, an important element is what you didn't include in your Joel 2:1-2 reference above,

...even to the years of MANY generations."

I can appreciate some of the things you have written Da Puppers.  And, I know that there are elements of Joel's prophecies that, at first glance (or second or third), might appear to be only last day's related.  Hey, I have felt the same before, without even questioning it.  I hope that what I have pointed out so far will at least cause you (and all) to take another look.  That's what I had to do---and still do.

What I didn't include from Joel 2:2,

".even to the years of MANY generations."

does not change the meaning of what I did include,

Joe 2:1-2 KJV ¹ Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; ² A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more like it,...[EVEN TO THE YEARS OF MANY GENERATIONS].

It doesn't mean that another DOTL shall come after "the years of many generations".  

If means "neither shall be any more like... " forever!

Hey Da Puppers,

I was just about to turn in for the night and I noticed your reply.  I guess on this, we'll just have to agree to disagree.  Hope you will really look close at all my posts in this thread.  And, there are yet some things that I am wanting to point out.  For now, the main thing is still the main thing, and like I've said before, I think we fully agree on that.

[Marilyn C]

18 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

I thought you had probably missed it.

So, we know that Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon was ultimately the rod used of God to effect the chastisement that He brought upon the southern kingdom, or Judah.  Moreover, for examples, we know that Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon is referred to as being "from the north (H6828)" (Ezek. 26:7), "Out of the north (H6828)" (Jer. 1:14), and "of the north (H6828)" (Jer. 25:9).  Note the Hebrew word, which is used well over 100 times in the OT, without anything consistent that would support that it is a reference to Russia whatsoever:

Strong's Concordance H6828

Original Word: צָפוֹן

Transliteration: tsâphôwn

Phonetic Spelling: tsaw-fone'

or צָפֹן; from H6845; properly, hidden, i.e. dark; used only of the north as a quarter (gloomy and unknown); north(-ern, side, -ward, wind).

Concerning "the northern (H6830) army" of Joel 2:20, the Hebrew word is:

Strong's Concordance H6830

Original Word: צְפוֹנִי

Transliteration: tsᵉphôwnîy

Phonetic Spelling: tsef-o-nee'

from H6828; northern; northern.

This word is only translated "northern" and is used one other time in Scripture, in Jeremiah 15:12, which I don't see as holding any support for your position.  Personally, I think it is a good thing to look into all the possibilities, but I'm not seeing anything related to Joel 2:20 and what you have put forth concerning it that supports your position.

I'm still wondering if you affirm or deny that there is any other Day of the LORD spoken of in Scripture, other than what is yet to be fulfilled.

I do like your illustration, and I agree, I think.   I certainly agree that the rapture will precede the future Day of the LORD.  I also agree with the "Tribulation" if you are meaning the whole of Daniel's 70th Week.  I also agree that the Day of the LORD takes in everything that will happen after the rapture, through Christ's Millennial Kingdom, and the Last Judgment (which I would suppose you include as well).  I guess my only question, as far as what appears, is what particular WAR you are talking about?  Concisely, I understand the rapture to happen with the opening of the 6th Seal, after which there will be at least a five month period (Rev. 9:5, 10) preceding the WAR of Revelation 9:13-21---which I indeed see as preceding the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week.  Is this the WAR you are indicating?

With that said, here is one of my charts, by which you can see our basic similarities.  Note especially the span that I have THE DAY OF THE LORD taking in, which closely matches yours:

IMHO, whatever Scripture you have to support your particular view concerning "the great army", there is not any support for this in the particular prophecy of Joel you keep appealing to, that I have been able to see---but I'm still looking.

It's my (past my) bedtime again...

Thanks not an echo,

Glad we have similarities. As to Joel 2, there is NO mention of Assyria, Babylon etc while all your other scriptures had that. I think that is sufficient evidence that it is NOT any of those.

Who is that army? Well as usual we need to look in all of God`s word for more detail. And as I have said Ezekiel was given the precise nations.

Now about that 6th seal. Probably good for another thread.