Eternal Security

[David1701]

31 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

"I declare unto you the good news, by which you are saved,
if ye hold fast to the word I preached to you,
unless you have believed in vain."  1 Corinthians 15:2

Sincere belief will always lead to action,
and belief can therefore be in vain, if it is not sincere.

"For many walk of whom I told you before and even tell you now weeping,
that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ,
whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly,
whose glory is in their shame,
who set their mind on earthly things"
Philippians 3:18

"And they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts"
Galatians 5:24

You have taken 1 Cor. 15:2 out of context. 

1 Cor. 15:1,2 (WEB) 

1 Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

What does this "...unless you believed in vain." refer to?

1 Cor. 15:13,14 (WEB)

13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither has Christ been raised.
14 If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain, and your faith also is in vain.

Here we see what Paul meant, in verse 2.  He meant that, if Christ had not been resurrected (hypothetically), then the Corinthians would have believed in vain, since the resurrection is vital for salvation.  It is nothing to do with sincerity and everything to do with the necessity of Christ's resurrection.

 

[Kelly2363]

3 hours ago, David1701 said:

Yes, we are saved with an everlasting salvation; but, what does the Bible say is the evidence that we have salvation?

1 John 3:7-10 (ESV)

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's  seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

The word of God states, very clearly, that those who make a practice of sinning are of the devil (not wandering sheep!).  No-one who has been born of God makes a practice of sinning, never mind decades of it!

James 2:14-20 (EMTV)

14 What does it profit, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Is that kind of faith able to save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the necessary things of the body, what is the benefit?
17 Thus also that faith, if it does not have works, is dead, being by itself.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by means of my works.
19 You believe God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe—and they shudder!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Any so-called "faith" that does not have good works flowing from it, is not real faith at all.  It is as dead as a dodo, like the doctrine which teaches that born again Christians can leave the Lord and live in sin for decades.

We need to believe what the Bible says, not someone's fleshly interpretation of other people's lives.

 

What have I to do with you?

[Desopixi Seilynam]

7 minutes ago, David1701 said:

by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

What does this "...unless you believed in vain." refer to?

1

We could also see it as referring to what was just said "If you hold firmly..."

If you don't hold firmly, you believed in vain.

 

It is clear even in 1 Corinthians that we do not get into heaven by simply believing that the event of the resurrection happened.
From the totality of everything said we know that we can not take 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 to mean anything of the sort.

 

"He that has my commands and keeps them, he it is that loves me"
John 14:21-24 [Matthew 28:19-20]

"Was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"
1 Corinthians 1:13

"If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let that person be anathema, Oh Lord come!"
1 Corinthians 16:22

[Kelly2363]

13 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

We could also see it as referring to what was just said "If you hold firmly..."

If you don't hold firmly, you believed in vain.

 

It is clear even in 1 Corinthians that we do not get into heaven by simply believing that the event of the resurrection happened.
From the totality of everything said we know that we can not take 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 to mean anything of the sort.

 

"He that has my commands and keeps them, he it is that loves me"
John 14:21-24 [Matthew 28:19-20]

"Was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"
1 Corinthians 1:13

"If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let that person be anathema, Oh Lord come!"
1 Corinthians 16:22

 

Believing in the resurrection of any man would be a supernatural happenstance if it were to come randomly and disconnected with Christ Himself. If someone came to me and did not confess faith in Christ' death - I would more than likely assume that they had not believed in His resurrection either. So if they did tell me that Christ was raised from the dead I would give them a place in the oak seat at the back of the church and wait to see what they did in fact believe. And so if after a while they came and asked why they were in the oak seat alone I would tell them that this was because they are the only person I know who believed n the resurrection of Christ from the dead - but did not believe in His death. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Kelly2363
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[Desopixi Seilynam]

5 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

And so if after a while they came and asked why they were in the oak seat alone I would tell them that this was because they are the only person I know who believed n the resurrection of Christ from the dead - but did not believe in His death. 

"And that Christ died for all, that they which live, should henceforth not live unto themselves,
but unto Him that died for them and rose again"
2 Corinthians 5:15

Therefore the purpose of the event of His death and resurrection
is not that we would merely believe that the event happened,
but rather that we would believe in Him and in the promises of God.
"I will open up your graves and bring you up out of your graves"
And that we all would share in the faith of Abraham,
for Abraham believed that God would raise Isaac from the dead. [Hebrews 11:19]

Edited September 26, 2021 by Desopixi Seilynam

[Kelly2363]

1 minute ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

"And that Christ died for all, that they which live, should henceforth not live unto themselves,
but unto Him that died for them and rose again"
2 Corinthians 5:15

Therefore the purpose of the event of His death and resurrection
is not that we would merely believe that the event happened,
but rather that we would believe in Him and in the promises of God.
"I will open up your graves and bring you up out of your graves"
And that we all would share in the faith of Abraham,
for Abraham believed that God would raise Isaac from the dead. [Hebrews 11:19]

Self evidently. Else believing in the resurrection of Christ would have no meaning. Nevertheless, to speak of the resurrection of Christ is to also speak of His death else it is a supernatural happenstance and to be refused. Otherwise I may as well open the church to the Muslim also and let them speak in the church because they also believe in resurrection. 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

2 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

Nevertheless, to speak of the resurrection of Christ is to also speak of His death else it is a supernatural happenstance and to be refused

The word resurrection implies death.

Resurrection = back to life from death.

Can't have resurrection without death, I agree.

Neither is any resurrection void of the person resurrected.

If all the world is invited to believe that Christ died and rose from the dead,
it must also be that all the world is invited to believe whatever He says or has said,
His death and resurrection being proof that His way of life is The way.

"And that He died for all that they which live...."

Indeed there are many important implications if Christ,
the teacher of righteousness, actually died and rose from the dead.

[Kelly2363]

13 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

The word resurrection implies death.

Resurrection = back to life from death.

Can't have resurrection without death, I agree.

Neither is any resurrection void of the person resurrected.

If all the world is invited to believe that Christ died and rose from the dead,
it must also be that all the world is invited to believe whatever He says or has said,
His death and resurrection being proof that His way of life is The way.

"And that He died for all that they which live...."

Indeed there are many important implications if Christ,
the teacher of righteousness, actually died and rose from the dead.

Wholly agree with you. Amen

I suppose that this is the difference between what is true and which we can declare to be true and set into the proper context - taking the natural fact of the respondent into account. I don't anticipate that a gentile would cite Abraham and Isaac before first citing Christ - yet James says:

“What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac, his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.” James 2:14-26

So who would cite James to speak of resurrection - who was not a Jew first? 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Kelly2363

[steve morrow]

ETERNAL  SECURITY ???   THROUGH  MAN  

DOES  NOT  JESUS  TEACH  DIFFERENTLY

 

2 TIMOTHY 2:7  consider what I say and  THE  LORD  give thee understanding ---in all things---

PSALM 60:11  give us help from trouble ---for vain is the help of man---

 

1 JOHN 2:4  he that saith I know  HIM  ---and keepeth not  HIS  commandments---is a liar and the truth is not in him-

 

LUKE 14:27  and whosoever doth not bear his cross and come after  ME  cannot be  MY  disciple 

--14:28-- for which of you intending to build a tower sitteth not down first ---and counteth the cost--- whether he have sufficient to finish it 

--14:29-- lest haply after he hath laid the foundation ---and is not able to finish it--- all that behold it begin to mock him

--14:30-- saying this man began to build and was ---not able to finish---

 

PSALM 28:5  because they regard not the works of  THE  LORD  nor the operation of  HIS  hands  HE  shall destroy them and not build them up 

 

2 CORINTHIANS 4:1  therefore seeing we have this ministry as we have received mercy we faint not

--4:2-- but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of  GOD  deceitfully but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every mans conscience in the sight of  GOD 

--4:3-- but if our gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost 

 

PSALM 25:10  all the paths of  THE  LORD ---are mercy and truth---unto such as keep  HIS  covenant and  HIS  testimonies ---

 

REVELATION 22:18  for I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book if any man shall add unto these things  GOD  shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book

--22:19-- and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy ---GOD shall --take away-- his part out of the book of life -- and out of the holy city -- and from the things that are written in this book---

 

PROVERBS 17:4  a wicked doer giveth heed to false lips and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue

 

JOHN 8:51  VERILY  VERILY  I  SAY  UNTO  YOU  IF  A  MAN  KEEP  MY  SAYING  HE  SHALL  NEVER  SEE  DEATH

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

 

 

 

 

 

[enoob57]

Eternal security is directly tied to the fact that the individual is born again s/Spiritually and The Holy Spirit of God dwells within those confines of life within....