What if others will be in heaven?

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

Those who kept patiently since the days of the flood. So what about Abel? Who saves him? So if we remove the witness of Abel's blood will God simply wink at murder? Theories are all well and good - but in truth they are worthless. You said that you were representing others and that you did it for a living. Right now if you were my lawyer - I would hang myself. What are you saying and why? Good morning. Where is the prophetic intent of God in your theory? Or is it just how men can help one another. The way of what?

Genesis 4: 4-10 

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

[Kelly2363]

3 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Genesis 4: 4-10 

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

 

Save for one thing, brother - you are alive. Whereas, Abel who was a real man and a prophet bears witness against his brother. If the patiently waiting is measured by the days of the flood and in the meaning specific to the passage from Peter then you say that Abel was saved when he heard Christ speaking in Sheol?

He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground.

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

 

[enoob57]

On 10/2/2021 at 11:20 AM, Amigo42 said:

The more I learn about the historic and cultural context in which the Bible was written, the more I realize that we really don't know as much as we think.

What if people will be in heaven who we thought would not be like some Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus?  This might seem heretical, but what if people are saved by the blood even if they don't realize it.  There are people who live righteous lives up to the knowledge they have.  Yes, Jesus is the only way.  However, the patriarchs did not know Jesus such as Moses, David, etc. Yet, these people are saved.  This is food for thought.

That is why God gave us His Word so that we might know the things of God and do them… study (which is an obedience to God)

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV) [15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is initiating of sanctification of the believer the study of Scripture and the doing of it

1 Thessalonians 5:15-24 (KJV) [15] See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
[16] Rejoice evermore.
[17] Pray without ceasing.
[18] In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
[19] Quench not the Spirit.
[20] Despise not prophesyings.
[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
[22] Abstain from all appearance of evil.
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[24] Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
 

[Kelly2363]

10 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

We were looking of how Jesus Christ is going to deal with those who died and they  were never told that Jesus died for the forgiveness of their sins.

Those people died without refusing to believe in Jesus Christ. 

All the scriptures who are calling upon those who have heard the Gospel to believe in Jesus Christ and naming the consequences if they do not believe and die in their unbelief do not apply to those who lived and died after the Cross. 

Those who died before the Cross are distinguish from those who lived and died after the Cross. 

The people who have not heard the Gospel and died this way all of them lived and died after the Cross and that's how we distinguish them from the people before the Cross. 

 

So in your teaching brother, Abel is a seeming easy matter to settle. But what of Cain? How do we settle that matter of him being in Sheol as his brother Abel was in Sheol -  whom he murdered - yet whilst in the fertile land to which his father, Adam was sent by God to till the land for his bread - Cain was given an opportunity by God to please God and being warned that sin was crouching at the door - he murdered his brother. 

How will we address that, brother? How will Cain receive the message of Christ' sacrifice on the Cross and his shed blood when he knowingly refused God?

Why does Cain appear in three post Accession accounts in the New Testament Hebrews 11:4, 1 John 3:12 and Jude 11 - as a warning to others if Cain was by then already forgiven and his sins were as far from God as the East if from the West - to be remembered no more? Why did the Holy Spirit inspire the prophetic Word - of faithful Apostles to bear witness of that which by then was already forgiven? When do we read that God condemns Abraham - even though he was a sinner? - Being according to your doctrine waiting in Sheol with Abel and Cain. Yet Cain is called a child of the devil!

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Kelly2363
Removed surplus wording.

[David1701]

12 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is not what the OP is asking. 

The OP is firm that only those who are under the blood of Jesus Christ enters Heaven.  

The OP asks , why many say that those who have not heard the Gospel, Jesus Christ will give them to the Devil...

People who have not refused to believe in Jesus Christ...The Lord will hand them over to the Devil...

The OP cannot find anything in the scriptures to support that and he is right..even your posting support that...

 

What are you talking about?

Those who have never heard of Jesus are ALREADY in the Devil's kingdom of darkness.  They don't need to be handed over.

1 John 5:19 (WEB) We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Col. 1:12,13 (WEB)

12 giving thanks to the Father, who made us fit to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light;
13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love;

2 Cor. 6:14-17 (WEB)

14 Don’t be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
15 What agreement has Christ with Belial? Or what portion has a believer with an unbeliever?
16 What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, “I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” 
17 Therefore, “‘Come out from among them, and be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘Touch no unclean thing. I will receive you.

Eph. 2:1-3 (WEB)

1 You were made alive when you were dead in transgressions and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the children of disobedience;
3 among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

[David1701]

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

We were looking of how Jesus Christ is going to deal with those who died and they  were never told that Jesus died for the forgiveness of their sins.

Firstly, Jesus did not die for their sins, otherwise they would have been given repentance and faith.  Jesus died to save his elect, not for every single person in the world. [The Greek word translated "world", referring to people, does not mean every single person in the world - that is simply not one of its meanings.]

Acts 13:48 (WEB) As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

John 10:11-16 (WEB)

11 I am the good shepherd.  The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 
12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who doesn’t own the sheep, sees the wolf coming, leaves the sheep, and flees. The wolf snatches the sheep, and scatters them. 
13 The hired hand flees because he is a hired hand, and doesn’t care for the sheep. 
14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and I’m known by my own; 
15 even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father. I lay down my life for the sheep. 
16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold.  I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd. 

Secondly, the Bible is very clear that those who do not hear the gospel have no excuse for their wickedness and unbelief.

Rom. 1:18-20 (WEB)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them.
20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.

The people on this forum who are teaching two ways of salvation, had better realise that they are in grave danger of being false teachers.

[David1701]

@pinacled Giving an "Oy Vey" to a post that is essentially just quoting the word of God, says something dangerous; but not about my post...

Edited October 8, 2021 by David1701

[Your closest friendnt]

15 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is not what the OP is asking. 

The OP is firm that only those who are under the blood of Jesus Christ enters Heaven.  

The OP asks , why many say that those who have not heard the Gospel, Jesus Christ will not look into the issue before him their complain that is not their fault for not believing because how can they believe that he died for the forgiveness of their sins if no one preached the word to them. If no one came to their place and declare the Gospel to them...

Jesus Christ has to make a decision to that issue and find them not responsible for not hearing the Gospel.

As these people are distinguish from the other people who have heard the Gospel and refuse to believe. 

How can they refused to believe if the in invitation to believe was never made to them. 

Those are people who have not refused to believe in Jesus Christ...The Lord cannot give them a portion with those who have refused to believe. 

The OP cannot find anything in the scriptures to support that and he is right..even your posting support that...

When you quoted Paul in Roman's 10:14 

New International Version
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 

21 hours ago, David1701 said:

Those who have never heard of Jesus, 

They need to hear the gospel, repent and believe in Jesus Christ, otherwise they will receive justice and will go to hell.

*** even your own statement above " they need to hear the Gospel, repent and believe in Jesus Christ otherwise they will receive justice and go to Hell. 

Your own words are that before someone is going to be judged to Hell must have heard the Gospel and refused to believe. 

Your self agrees with the above statement that these people who never heard the Gospel cannot be Judge to Hell. 

And you have supported that with posting in bold 

Romans 10:14 

And how shall they believe Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they  hear without preaching. 

 

[David1701]

27 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is not what the OP is asking. 

The OP is firm that only those who are under the blood of Jesus Christ enters Heaven.  

The OP asks , why many say that those who have not heard the Gospel, Jesus Christ will not look into the issue before him their complain that is not their fault for not believing because how can they believe that he died for the forgiveness of their sins if no one preached the word to them. If no one came to their place and declare the Gospel to them...

Jesus Christ has to make a decision to that issue and find them not responsible for not hearing the Gospel.

As these people are distinguish from the other people who have heard the Gospel and refuse to believe. 

How can they refused to believe if the in invitation to believe was never made to them. 

Those are people who have not refused to believe in Jesus Christ...The Lord cannot give them a portion with those who have refused to believe. 

The OP cannot find anything in the scriptures to support that and he is right..even your posting support that...

When you quoted Paul in Roman's 10:14 

New International Version
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 

21 hours ago, David1701 said:

Those who have never heard of Jesus, 

They need to hear the gospel, repent and believe in Jesus Christ, otherwise they will receive justice and will go to hell.

*** even your own statement above " they need to hear the Gospel, repent and believe in Jesus Christ otherwise they will receive justice and go to Hell. 

Your own words are that before someone is going to be judged to Hell must have heard the Gospel and refused to believe. 

Your self agrees with the above statement that these people who never heard the Gospel cannot be Judge to Hell. 

And you have supported that with posting in bold 

Romans 10:14 

And how shall they believe Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they  hear without preaching. 

You have misunderstood.

My post did not mean that people cannot be judged, unless they have heard the gospel!  I meant that people cannot be saved, unless they have heard the gospel, repented and believed in Jesus Christ.

People are, ever since the fall of Adam, by default, under God's condemnation.  If they die in that condition, they will go to hell.

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

You have misunderstood.

My post did not mean that people cannot be judged, unless they have heard the gospel!  I meant that people cannot be saved, unless they have heard the gospel, repented and believed in Jesus Christ.

People are, ever since the fall of Adam, by default, under God's condemnation.  If they die in that condition, they will go to hell.

There are three issues raised in this post.

The first one is found in paragraph one lines 1-4.

"My post did not mean that people cannot be judged, unless they have heard the gospel!"

This is the heart of the matter. Everyone has to appear after his death before Jesus Christ "every knee shall bow down before him...

Before anything else everyone will stand before Jesus Christ to be announced according to whether he has believe or he has refused to believe.  

Everyone's works follows them. 

To repeat everyone appears without their works then when it has been determined if they have believed in the Gospel or not then the works of everyone comes in place. 

We have come to the understanding that there are people who only have works. Those are the people who because of no fault of their own they do not have in their hearts faith or denial in Jesus Christ. 

The question is are those people ready to appear before Jesus Christ to be deal according to their faith or their denial of their Judge Jesus Christ? 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Your closest friendnt