As in the Days of Noe.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Yes. Modern satellite photography has potentially identified these ancient river beds before the flood. In an effort to identify exactly where the Garden of Eden was located, some experts speculate the garden was located under what is now the northern tip of the Persian Gulf. It does fit the description the Bible gives of the rivers.

Of course, I don't know, but for many reasons, I suspect the Garden of Eden was located in Israel, near or at Jerusalem, the land of milk and honey. Everything biblical has always been centered around this area. Israel is the center of the world, even written language is divided left and right from there. 

I have done a lot of study of young earth vs. old earth, and the conclusion I once again reached; is again, I don't know? Most of my life I've believed the young earth theory. Both sides of this debate present convincing arguments on this issue.

We do know (or IMO anyway) the refurbished Earth will be our eternal home, and Heaven will one day come to Earth. Wrong hermeneutics of scripture is not a sin, and one or more sides is wrong in their view, it's not going to keep us out of Heaven. I've about stopped debating this because it's never productive. If I were forced to pick a side, to me, the preponderance of the scriptural evidence supports the earth is older than 6,000 years. 

What is the importance of water for every living thing on the planet, to include recycling and erosion? The Genesis account gives us a detailed description of what and when everything was created. I have two questions I cannot find? On what day of the creation week, was water created? Was it created bârâʼ (ex nihilo) or ʻâsâh (fashioned)? I have to wonder, why is water not listed in the six-day creation account?

Once again, I'm theorizing and speculating, but in addition to protecting DNA and the genome, from the harmful and longevity effects of solar and cosmic radiation on the human genome, and genetically passed down. Earth's canopy would have to have been ice? < - this is a question.

The antediluvian fossil record shows plant, insect and animal life was much larger than today. Discounting the Nephilim, I've wondered how big humans were prior to the deluge, since everything else was gigantic? Why? 

Many experiments have been conducted in hyperbaric chambers with plants and animals, showing plants and animals thrive, and grow to immense size under increased pressure and increased oxygen. As we all know, hyperbaric treatment is used for the bends, and much quicker healing of most injuries, illnesses and disease. I've also pondered why these treatments are not used more frequently, especially with severe burn injuries? 

Would a vapor canopy, as compared to a solid ice canopy, increase atmospheric pressure and oxygen? My physics suggest no. 

I believe the 2nd heaven constellations once told a story of creation or redemption, that was corrupted and perverted, turned into soothsaying, astrology and horoscopes (personal opinion). 

Uncontaminated clear ice is translucent with little to no distortion, and acts like a small magnifier, in addition to reflecting back a very small portion of visible light, and filtering out harmful gamma, x-ray, etc. light. I imagine in my mind, what viewing the heavens with the naked eye might have been like?

They say our knowledge is doubling every few weeks now (technology). Knowledge does not translate to wisdom. I've wondered, had the world not adopted Darwin and the lie of evolution, the Big Bang out of a singularity of nothingness, etc. Accepted the biblical account and based science on that, where would we be today? 

Hi Dennis

What if God had to think up every single molecule for every single thing that exists  including all the empty space in between one at a time?  Even if,  it still wouldn't take up much??? of His time would it?   

Here is a thought or just a different perspective maybe

After all that space and time HERE are a couple choices....

1)  about 14000 years ago, in 6 days God created the earth and all souls and now He is giving us 'A CHANCE' that lasts the blink of an eye (HOPEFULLY) comparatively speaking, to spend eternity with Him.  But that comes off as more of a 'GOOD LUCK EVERYONE hope you arrive in one of those 'lucky lanes' on the highway through life' and not as someone's elses mistake (car accident, wrong shot, allergic reaction, someone else's mental state etc., not eating right etc.) thereby eliminating any hope of ever getting a chance to receive the gift.  

2)  Same as above with various 'avenues' of 'another chance.

3) millions/billions/trillions of years ago, God kinda finished with the whole Host of the heavens aka the planets, stars goes on to create the whole HOST of Heaven meaning all the 'sons of God' and 'morning stars' and THEN the earth.  

(who most likely were just having a blast BECAUSE THERE WAS YET TO BE AN INIQUITY found in anyone!  How fun was that?  That had to go on for a really long time.  I PONDER on the possibility that the creating of the earth, a TANGIBLE difference, again only pondering, may have been set forth as a 'next level' test for every one.  We know that 'The morning star, the cherub created the full pattern', Gods best friend, was in charge of protecting the mercy seat and was ruling many kingdoms and 'running up the ladder of success', till THE FALL.  I wonder if this took place on the earth or up in the heavens though either way all would have remained in their spiritual bodies. 

Is there a possibility that the 'cast them to earth'  is what is really taking place right now?  A casting into 'earthy vessels' of the sons of God' and maybe why 

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them  2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose  3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years  4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown  5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually  6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Maybe the separation is really good going the one way, but not so much the other) 


This way IT IS MORE THAN  'just luck and the blink of the eye'  AND it really is all about God being Just and we all getting what we rightly deserve. 

 
 

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting  2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations  3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience  4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing  5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him  6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed  7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord  8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

(What is weird to me anyhow is IT doesn't matter since we 'don't remember' .  WE are told the former things have been forgotten and these days will not be remembered either. But God gives us a big HINT of what might be going on  - the words of God remain until Heaven and Earth)

Spiritual sight is different from Carnal and easy to spot. 

Before our eyes are opened there is just no conception of anything outside of the words, out side the earth, outside the time known.   You see it all the time.  THE MILK has been learned and that is where all and the only truth will forever remain so can't stand anyone moving beyond.  
But ONCE our eyes have been opened BY HIM,  WOW.   Until that point we have those who aren't supposed not and those who are either with a little more with each verse or opened with a rush of wisdom and doors flying open everywhere.  I feel sorry for those who no longer wish to remain where they are who don't even know the way to get there is to drop to the knees and cry out to the Lord for wisdom and understanding and then wait for it it arrive.  

Anyway, just some morning thoughts  d

[AandW_Rootbeer]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

As the waters began to rise the ark began to float and without a steering just drifting about.

The ark wasn't a preteshasor to submarines and was not a hydro plane. It was drifting to where the Lord wanted the ark to drift. The occupants had not control of the Ark. They were drifting along with the ark and did not have any visuals to the outside of the Ark. 

But the Lord got hold of her and was her pilot.  He must there is no other way, if not a disaster could occur. 

And the angels were all  locked out. 

Amen!

 

The ARK never just lifted up into the stratosphere as some are trying to imply!

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

Amen!

 

The ARK never just lifted up into the stratosphere as some are trying to imply!

When we build a boat we need to support the boat in such away so we can work on the bottom of the boat.

It was the same for Ark.

And as the waters began to rise the Ark float and drifted away. It did not ended in the same place where it was built.

Regarding what they say, which they admit it is not reflected in the narrative, but they can say what they say because is not a Salvation issue. 

They are right, but it is not just about that whether it is a Salvation issue or not, it is about a lot of other things.

* One of them is that unbelievers who are exposed to this and other similar, non discipline talking with the thought that we are free to fictionalized because it is not a Salvation issue is not serving well to attract an non believer to the faith, it may acctually turned him off...questioning the mental state of the believers and that it can effect the integrity of the truth about the Gospel. 

 

[The Light]

8 hours ago, Josheb said:

Argumentum ad nauseam. 

The scriptures state what the scriptures state and in the Genesis 6-9, Matthew 24, and Luke 17 texts they all show those taken away were the ones destroyed. Those who remained on the earth were saved. That would include Lot. Lot left Sodom, but he remained on earth; he was left behind even when his wife who also left Sodom did not remain. Stop trying to force the text. Jesus' gospel mentions of Noah are not about a future rapture. That does not mean there are not other passages about a rapture; it just means those two passages are not. 

Light:
"Those that remained were destroyed." 

Jesus:
"The flood came and took them away and destroyed them all."

I'm going to stick with Jesus on this one.

Oh no. That is absolutely NOT WHAT JESUS SAID. That is your interpretation of what Jesus said, and an incorrect one at that.

Why are the accounts of what Luke said and what Matthew said not in agreement?

If Jesus said it and they heard it, why the difference?

I put in a washing machine this week. A friend was helping me and after the machine was in place, it rocked when it was pushed on. All four corners were not touching the floor. After rocking it I said I'm going to lift the machine and I want you to raise this corner, as I pointed to it. He said, that's not going to work. I rocked the machine again and said yes, it will work. Just raise this corner. He stooped down and when I lifted the machine he made the adjustment. Once back on the ground, we tested it and it rocked much more than before. He said, I told you that was not going to work. Hold on now, I said. you did not raise this corner, you lowered it. He said no, I raised it. Turns out that he raised the leg in the corner  which lowers the corner. I wanted him to make the proper adjustment to raise the corner of the machine.

Both of use were in fact right, but our stories were different.

The gist of everything is that you can take many examples of the coming of the Son of Man and in everyone of the them, it is the righteous that are taken from the earth.

[The Light]

6 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

Amen!

 

The ARK never just lifted up into the stratosphere as some are trying to imply!

It was above the mountains, which is above the earth as the Bible is trying to imply.

[The Light]

6 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

When we compare Matt 24:30 with Rev 1:7, we find that it referring to the same event. 

Mat 24:30 KJV And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 1:7 KJV Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The Greek word used for mourn in Matt 24, is kopto, G2875, and is the same word translated as wail in Rev 1.

The Greek word used for tribes in Matt 24,  G5443, phule, is the same word translated as kindreds in Rev 1.  So,  Rev 1:7 could be written as: 

Rev 1:7 KJV Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all tribes of the earth shall mourn because of him. Even so, Amen.

But there is one more subtle difference between the two passages.   Matt 24 says "in" the clouds,  whereas Rev 1 says "with" the clouds.   So,  why the difference?   To answer that question,  I want to look at a couple other scriptures. 

Dan 7:13 KJV I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Here we see the same phrase,  "coming with the clouds".  In and off itself,  just as in Rev 1,  does not indicate anything about direction of travel.   But Jesus coming 'with the clouds'  is  widely interpreted to mean that "Jesus is coming with" means from heaven.  But when we look closer at Dan 7, we see that the direction of travel is "coming to the Father/ ancient of days".   I.e. "with" does not mean "from" heaven, but it means "of heaven", meaning 'belonging to' heaven.

Matt 24 also uses clouds of heaven,  but Rev 1 does not.  Matt 24:30 can and is interpreted two ways... as the rapture or as his 2nd coming to the earth.   But interpreting "clouds of heaven" to  simply mean "from heaven",  is acceptable under either understanding of WHEN the time is referring to,  rapture or revelation.   So let's look at a very familiar passage to see if it would be proper to interpret "clouds of heaven" to mean clouds belonging to heaven.  

1Th 4:13-16 KJV ¹³ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. ¹⁴ For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. ¹⁵ For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The focus here is primarily on the dead in Christ,  those who are asleep in Jesus, God will bring with Jesus.   Where do we see that thought addressed by Paul in 1Thess4?   It is when Paul says the dead in Christ shall rise first.   There are two important points here. 

1.  The word rise,  (anistemi)  is not the same word used to describe resurrecting from the dead.   But instead it more directly means to rise or ascend upwards.  The Gospels distinguish the word, anistemi, from the word, egeiro,  (which does refer to resurrection extensively in 1Cor 15) to say that Jesus resurrected/rose from the dead on the 3rd,  then appeared to Mary Magdalene on that same day,  and then appeared to the two Emmaus disciples and unto all of the apostles later that same day AFTER Jesus ascended to the Father.   See Mark 16:9-14, John 20,21.

2. In verse 17 of 1Thess4,  Paul says THEN we who are alive and remain shall meet the Lord in the clouds, as in afterward of the dead in Christ rising/anistemi. 

1Thess4 does not say that those events take place in the twinkling of an eye.   But 1Cor 15 does say that the conveying of incorruption upon the corruptible & immortality upon the mortals does in fact say "in the twinkling of an eye".  But it is not a foregone conclusion of 1Thess4.   Having a passage of time between verses 16 and 17 does not violate scripture. 

The word "then" in verse 17 is where we first notice/ know of Jesus being "in the clouds".  This is coming after Jesus has descended from heaven with a shout.   Jesus is not seen "in the clouds" until after the dead in Christ rise,  and after

1. His descent, 

2. His shout, 

3. The Trump of God, 

4. The voice of the archangel. 

What I have demonstrated is that "in the clouds", "with the clouds", when speaking directly about the rapture,  could very well only be referring to going from earth to heaven.   This same thought is probably also found here: 

Mat 16:27 KJV For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Surely,  this has to mean rewarding the righteous.   Here it is again. 

Mat 24:30 KJV And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

Great post Da PuP

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

I quoted him. 

I have done so at least twice in this thread. I will now do so again.

 

Matthew 24:37-39
"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.  For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,  and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be."

Luke 17:26-27
"And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:  they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all."

 

The flood came and took them all away. The flood came and destroyed them all. That is what Jesus said. I did not add anything to what either scriptures plainly, observably, undeniably, irrefutably state. Neither did I subtract the slightest iota from either verse. 

The flood came and took them all away and destroyed them all. 

It is absolutely what Jesus said. 

Neither text is about a rapture. 

 

The more we have hashed this back and forth, I have come to the realization that you are correct. When the flood comes those taken away are destroyed. 

That being said. Noah is in the ark 7 days BEFORE the flood. They are shut in by God and are in their place of protection even as the Church will be in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel begins.

The flood will be at the end of the 70th week of Daniel when the Day of the Lord begins.

Edited November 19, 2021 by The Light

[Cntrysner]

It doesn't matter that the ones destroyed in the flood are referred to as taken the point is they were destroyed. What matters is that Noah and Family were lifted up above the destruction and again returned to the earth as a type for pre trib rapture for those that believe.  

[Cntrysner]

48 minutes ago, Josheb said:

What matters is that we stay faithful to what is written in God's word and this interpretation Noah and his family were "lifted up" is not faithful to what is written; it is an interpretation. Noah was not lifted up above the destruction; he sailed through the destruction that was all around him. He escaped the destruct that was all around him. 

Gen 7:17  And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. 

To interpret the verse to mean Noah "sailed through the destruction" is to deny the text. The destruction was to those on the face of the earth and Noah was lifted in the ark above the earth. 

Gen 7:4  For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.  

[The Light]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

What is it IN SCRIPTURE ITSELF that leads you to believe that 7 and that 70 are connected? Please don't make stuff up and hypothesize and speculate and infer where scripture itself does not do that. I am asking you for the place scripture itself connects that 7 to that 70. Can you do that? 

Or do you think every mention of 7 in the Bible is connected to every other 7 and 70?

Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood, and God shut him in. That mean he was in his place of safety 1 week before destruction.

Gen 7

9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

There is still one week remaining where God will turn His attention to the Jews.

Dan 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The remaining week will not begin until a covenant is confirmed. Then God will turn His attention to Israel. The Jews won't be able to see until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. That fullness will happen what the Church is raptured from the earth.

Rom11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

That is why we see the elders with crowns in Revelation 4 and the Church in heaven in Rev 5.

In Rev 6 the seals are opened as the least week has begun when a covenant is confirmed. Jesus comes at the 6th seal and the second rapture will occur. The twelve tribes across the earth will be raptured and the wrath of God will begin. The same day Lot left Sodom, destruction occurred.