Thou shalt conceive and bear a son...or not?

[Your closest friendnt]

8 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Did I not post this right?The Holy Spirit is the one who impregnated Mary. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus Christ. But after that Mary and Joseph had more children. 

No the Holy Spirit did not impregnated Mary, this as far as the East from the West, please read what the scriptures say, what the Angel Gabriel had to say about that...in Luke 1: and use the words of the Angel Gabriel to a "t", and no one can say anything about that. 

Luke 1:31-35

³¹ And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

 

³² He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

³³ And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

³⁴ Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

 

³⁵ And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[LearningToLetGo]

4 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Back then, the woman was the 'garden' and the man the seed planter.

Thank you for this reminder. It's all too easy to forget that 2,000 years ago the biblical authors saw the world radically different than we do today, just as presumably people 2,000 years from now will see the world radically different than we do. God 'planted' the seed. Mary 'grew' it. Questions of shared lineage/DNA would be nonsensical to Luke. At least, that's how I read this.

Edited October 24, 2021 by LearningToLetGo

[David1701]

15 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Just want to contribute this:  How is the believer sanctified, even though living in the flesh?  Through the washing of the water of the word, through being born of the Holy Spirit and through Christ dwelling in us.  Could we then consider Mary to have been a clean/sanctified vessel since she believed/received the word of God spoken to her, as well as that she was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit AND that she had Christ the Messiah living in her temple/body?

Yes, but Mary was not sinless.  Only those who sin need a Saviour.

Luke 1:46,47 (KJV)

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

[LearningToLetGo]

Not to throw a non-sequitur into the mix, but although Jesus never gave in to temptation we know full well that he was tempted. The devil himself tempted Jesus. How was this possible if Jesus did not share at least the potential for sin, presumably from his mother?

[DeighAnn]

And since I  hunt it down THIS WAY, it looks as if Joseph had two fathers and since I don't know all that much about Jewish law and 'relationships with relatives' I would assume it is all something that is by 'law' or whatever.  


How can we know for sure that Mary is of the tribe of Judah and of the bloodline of David, both before and after marriage?  Once married, she fell under Joseph as of Judah and before falls under Jesus.  It is true there are no bloodlines listed with Mary in the critical position, we can STILL be sure of its truth by WHAT IS WRITTEN ABOUT CHRIST AND WHAT IS WRITTEN ABOUT DAVID. 

 

Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David

(Since His heavenly Father was by Spirit and not by genes and His earthly father was by law and not by 'genes' this  alone tells us that Mary was of David and was the Mother of our Lord.  Though nothing else need be said there are many other places stating the relation ship with David and Jesus and only one person who could have provided it.)  

Luke 1:33 And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.


Why does Joseph have 2 or was one of these actually Mary's?   Either way doesn't change any thing but none the less curious and I would pick the first as Marys if pushed

as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli,  the son of Matthat

Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah." 
 

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

Hebrews 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Again, If I had nothing else....

Interesting 

[DeighAnn]

25 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The lists in the Bible are not generally exhaustive. The lineages given are different because different generations are emphasized and generations are emphasized differently for different reasons or purposes. Joseph had both a priest and a king in his lineage. One gospel writer emphasized the kingly aspect of his genealogy and another one emphasized his priestly heritage. Jesus is both king and priest and God apparently saw fit to 1) see that the bloodline included both and 2) inspire the gospel writers to include both. 

So who is his father and who is the other person?

[David1701]

2 hours ago, LearningToLetGo said:

Not to throw a non-sequitur into the mix, but although Jesus never gave in to temptation we know full well that he was tempted. The devil himself tempted Jesus. How was this possible if Jesus did not share at least the potential for sin, presumably from his mother?

There are two types of temptation.

1) Someone else tries to get you to sin.

2) Your own evil desire prompts you to sin.

Jesus was tempted according to number 1), but not number 2).

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Scripture first. 

ABSOLUTELY.  ALWAYS.  


1  Paul a servant of Christ Jesus a called apostle having been set apart for gospel of God

2  which He promised beforehand through the prophets of Him in the Scriptures Holy

3  concerning the Son of Him having come of SPERMATOS of David according to flesh

4  having been declared Son of God in power according to Spirit of holiness by resurrection {from the} dead,  Jesus Christ the Lord of us

4690. sperma descendants, offspring


2596 kata
b. equivalent to the Latinratione habita alicuius rei vel personae; as respects; with regard to; in reference to; so far as relates to; as concerning; (Winer's Grammar, 401 (375)): κατά σάρκα or κατά τήν σάρκα, as to the flesh (see σάρξ (especially 2b.)), Romans 1:3; Romans 9:3, 5; 1 Corinthians 1:26; 1 Corinthians 10:18; 2 Corinthians 11:18
 

 4561. sarx ►
Strong's Concordance
sarx: flesh
Original Word: σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: sarx
Phonetic Spelling: (sarx)
Definition: flesh
Usage: flesh, body, human nature, materiality; kindred.
HELPS Word-studies
4561 sárks properly, flesh ("carnal"), merely of human origin or empowerment.

[4561 /sárks ("flesh") is not always evil in Scripture. Indeed, it is used positively in relation to sexual intercourse in marriage (Eph 5:31) – as well as for the sinless human body of Jesus (Jn 1:14; 1 Jn 4:2,3). Indeed, flesh (what is physical) is necessary for the body to live out the faith the Lord works in (Gal 2:20).]

4561 (sarks) is generally negative, referring to making decisions (actions) according to self – i.e. done apart from faith (independent from God's inworking). Thus what is "of the flesh (carnal)" is by definition displeasing to the Lord – even things that seem "respectable!" In short, flesh generally relates to unaided human effort, i.e. decisions (actions) that originate from self or are empowered by self. This is carnal ("of the flesh") and proceeds out of the untouched (unchanged) part of us – i.e. what is not transformed by God.


 

John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

 

John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God

and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.



1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

1 Timothy 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.

1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

1 Timothy 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment and some men they follow after.

1 Timothy 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.


Just like Paul who studied at the feet of Gamaliel, possessed more knowledge than anyone else around, had more zeal then 10 people put together but insisted on kicking against the pricks    D

 

[DeighAnn]

19 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Is it being suggested a sperm of David's was used to incarnate Jesus in Mary's womb? A descendant, yes (that is not in dispute), but an actual sperm from David himself? 

No.  A descendant, yes.  

[Your closest friendnt]

8 hours ago, David1701 said:

Yes, but Mary was not sinless.  Only those who sin need a Saviour.

Luke 1:46,47 (KJV)

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Mary when she said that Jesus was not conceived yet, to say that she was referring to Jesus when she said God my Savior is quite unlikely, it is impossible.

She lived  during the times when the Israelites were still in the Sinai Covenant, about thirty five years till the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

For this matter her words "God my Savior" at that time were not towards to conceived yet Jesus Christ but towards to the God, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, the God who deliver the Israelites out of Egypt, the God of Israel and Moses and Samuel and David and so on...the Lord God they Nation of Israel was worshiping that time while they were in the Covenant of Sinai with him. And which Covenant was still in effect and will still be in effect for approximately another thirty five years till the death of Jesus Christ. 

45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

Luke 1:46-55

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name

50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Your closest friendnt