The Temple of Flesh or the Temple of Stone?

[B-B]

On 12/25/2021 at 9:12 AM, Diaste said:

It's certainly a mystery that Cain was afraid to be killed by people who found him

Why is this a mystery?

On 12/25/2021 at 9:12 AM, Diaste said:

And where did he get a wife?

What are your thoughts?

 

On 12/25/2021 at 9:12 AM, Diaste said:

Clearly there were other people about when Cain killed Abel

 

Who were these other people, and where did they come from?

 

On 12/25/2021 at 9:12 AM, Diaste said:

so history goes back further than what the scriptures tell us is important.

 

What do you mean by this statement?

 

In Genesis 4:13-14, shortly after he killed his brother Abel, “Cain said to the LORD, ‘My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.’” Whom exactly was Cain afraid of? The only people the book of Genesis had mentioned to this point are Adam and Eve (Cain’s parents) and Abel (who was now dead). Who would possibly be a threat to Cain?

It is important to recognize that Cain and Abel were both full-grown adults at the time that Cain killed Abel. Both Cain and Abel were farmers, who tended to their own lands and flocks (Genesis 4:2-4). The Bible does not tell us how old Cain and Abel were, but they very likely could have been in their 30’s or 40’s. The Bible does not specifically mention Adam and Eve having any children between Abel and Seth (Genesis 4:25). However, it is highly unlikely that the two most perfect human beings in the history of the world, Adam and Eve, would not have any children over several decades. Adam and Eve had many children after Seth (Genesis 5:4), so why would they not also have had other children between Abel and Seth? The Bible does not say that Seth was Adam and Eve’s first child, or even first son, after Abel was killed. Rather, it states that Seth was born as a “replacement” for Abel. Genesis chapter 5 traces the genealogy of Seth. Prior to his death, Abel was likely the “chosen” son that would eventually produce the Messiah (Genesis 3:15). It is in this sense that Seth “replaced” Abel.

So, whom was Cain afraid of? Cain was afraid of his own brothers, sisters, nephews, and nieces, who were already born and would be capable of seeking revenge. The fact that Cain had a wife (Genesis 4:17) is a further evidence that Adam and Eve had other children after Cain and Abel, but before Seth.

Source: https://www.gotquestions.org/Cain-afraid.html

 

We as Believers today, would not entertain the idea of marrying a blood relative - a brother or sister (or our father or mother, whom we have come from).

However, Eve was created by God, from a rib, taken from Adam. These two individuals became one flesh....the first human marriage, in a sense, and they couldn't have been more closely blood related. Eve was taken from Adam, she was literally a part of him.

 

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

23 And Adam said:

“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”

24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Genesis 2:21-24

Edited December 26, 2021 by B-B

[Diaste]

25 minutes ago, B-B said:

Why is this a mystery?

The mystery is who are the other people, where did they come from, how many are there, and where are they?

25 minutes ago, B-B said:

What are your thoughts?

Either God created other people alongside Adam and Eve or Adam and Eve had other offspring. I think they had other offspring and Cain married a sister or a niece. It's speculation but it's not illogical.

25 minutes ago, B-B said:

 

 

Who were these other people, and where did they come from?

It would be interesting if scripture revealed these facts.

25 minutes ago, B-B said:

What do you mean by this statement?

There is missing history before Adam knew his wife and Cain was born. This is important to what comes after. We only get allusion to others which Cain feared and from where his wife came from. So from that position there is history which goes back further then Cain's behavior. Was there another civilization? How big was it? One city? Many? A village a just a few? How long between the true first born of Adam and the Lord's marking of Cain? 

Apparently none of that was important for the Lord to reveal. 

25 minutes ago, B-B said:

 

In Genesis 4:13-14, shortly after he killed his brother Abel, “Cain said to the LORD, ‘My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.’” Whom exactly was Cain afraid of? The only people the book of Genesis had mentioned to this point are Adam and Eve (Cain’s parents) and Abel (who was now dead). Who would possibly be a threat to Cain?

It is important to recognize that Cain and Abel were both full-grown adults at the time that Cain killed Abel. Both Cain and Abel were farmers, who tended to their own lands and flocks (Genesis 4:2-4). The Bible does not tell us how old Cain and Abel were, but they very likely could have been in their 30’s or 40’s. The Bible does not specifically mention Adam and Eve having any children between Abel and Seth (Genesis 4:25). However, it is highly unlikely that the two most perfect human beings in the history of the world, Adam and Eve, would not have any children over several decades. Adam and Eve had many children after Seth (Genesis 5:4), so why would they not also have had other children between Abel and Seth? The Bible does not say that Seth was Adam and Eve’s first child, or even first son, after Abel was killed. Rather, it states that Seth was born as a “replacement” for Abel. Genesis chapter 5 traces the genealogy of Seth. Prior to his death, Abel was likely the “chosen” son that would eventually produce the Messiah (Genesis 3:15). It is in this sense that Seth “replaced” Abel.

Yep. Seems a plausible scenario(s).

25 minutes ago, B-B said:

 

We as Believers today, would not entertain the idea of marrying a blood relative - a brother or sister (or our father or mother, whom we have come from).

 

We are all related in any case. No matter what it's always cousins that marry one another. Not close ones but cousins nonetheless. The prohibition is close family and first cousins. of course.

Cain would have little choice at the time since only Adam and Eve were fruitful. It's a bit weird to think about but at that time in order to multiply it was only close family. Very odd for the times in which we live.

[appy]

C'mon, its rather silly to think that only one couple was able to reproduce while everyone else just stared at each other for 800 to 900 years.

Scripture is primarily speaking and dealing with the heart of man and our relationship with God.  Scripture tells us what God wants us to know.  It seems people in general speaking (collective people, no one here specifically) are not satisfied with what is already  shown us.  God is NOT keeping anything from us.  If we were shown more details, it would take away the lesson and focus of what God intended for us to know and learn.

I seems to me, people in general are always trying to make the bible fit into the mold of whatever philosophy the world holds or "aliens were here" or some other nonsense.   

 

[B-B]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Either God created other people alongside Adam and Eve

What do you mean by this? Do you mean that God created another human from the dust of the earth and breathed life into them? What do you mean by 'alongside'? Are you implying that the human race did not originate from only one couple, Adam & Eve?

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is missing history before Adam knew his wife and Cain was born

What do you mean there is missing history? How do you know there is missing history?

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

We are all related in any case. No matter what it's always cousins that marry one another. Not close ones but cousins nonetheless. The prohibition is close family and first cousins. of course.

I agree ... However if by your theory of the possibility of God creating humans 'alongside ' Adam & Eve, means that all humans do not originate from Adam & Eve, then would all human beings still be considered to be related....?

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's a bit weird to think about but at that time in order to multiply it was only close family.

Yes indeed 😊 That was my point....it's clear that for Adam to become one flesh with Eve, an individual who couldn't be any more closely related, it was perfectly acceptable, it was good. 

So for their offspring to intermarry, and produce further offspring, would also not have been seen as inappropriate behaviour, as it obviously is today - (although some cultures today, do still think it's acceptable for close cousins to marry).

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by B-B

[WilliamL]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Either God created other people alongside Adam and Eve or Adam and Eve had other offspring. I think they had other offspring and Cain married a sister or a niece. It's speculation but it's not illogical.

Not spec at all:

Gen. 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters. ... 7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.

[WilliamL]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not unless there is a specific statement to the effect a Temple will never again stand in Jerusalem after 70 AD as a fulfillment of prophecy. 

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

LOL!!! There is no statement saying there will be a temple again standing in Jerusalem after 70 AD as a fulfillment of prophecy! 

Zech. 14:20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the LORD of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Not spec at all:

Right! I've heard this discussion before. the record stands. And to sum it up, they DID intermarry and it was a commandment of God to populate the Earth. At that time there was no forbidding these "relatives" as God imposed that later.

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Not spec at all:

Gen. 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters. ... 7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.

Yes, after Seth. But since they were after the statement of Cain about fearing for his life it probably wasn't them he feared since they didn't exist. It's possible he had foresight there would be more offspring from Adam and Eve but a literal reading would only leave Cain and Adam and Eve, so who did he fear?

Someone in already established community away from the Lord in the Land of Nod.

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, B-B said:

What do you mean by this? Do you mean that God created another human from the dust of the earth and breathed life into them? What do you mean by 'alongside'? Are you implying that the human race did not originate from only one couple, Adam & Eve?

I'm only suggesting a possibility. I more inclined to think Adam and Eve were having children for 130 years before Seth was born. Cain isn't called the firstborn so it's reasonable there were other offspring. 

17 hours ago, B-B said:

 

What do you mean there is missing history? How do you know there is missing history?

There are more gaps in the scripture narrative than we realize. Just in the gospels alone there is a great deal of missing information about everything Jesus said and did. John said if all the acts of Jesus were recorded the world could not contain the books that could be written. Now that's a florid prose perhaps but it illustrates the point; not everything was recorded. And it can't be. 

17 hours ago, B-B said:

 

I agree ... However if by your theory of the possibility of God creating humans 'alongside ' Adam & Eve, means that all humans do not originate from Adam & Eve, then would all human beings still be considered to be related....?

It's just possible. I don't think it likely but one never knows.

17 hours ago, B-B said:

 

Yes indeed 😊 That was my point....it's clear that for Adam to become one flesh with Eve, an individual who couldn't be any more closely related, it was perfectly acceptable, it was good. 

So for their offspring to intermarry, and produce further offspring, would also not have been seen as inappropriate behaviour, as it obviously is today - (although some cultures today, do still think it's acceptable for close cousins to marry).

Right. This seems plausible to me as well. Royalty does this today. Keep it in the family. English and French royalty were bad about this back in the day. 

[WilliamL]

On 12/26/2021 at 3:11 PM, Josheb said:

On 12/26/2021 at 12:55 PM, WilliamL said:

Zech. 14:20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the LORD of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

That does not specifically state a temple will be built after 70 AD. 

And John 2:18-22 and 1 Cor. 3:16 work perfectly as a fulfillment of that prophecy. 

Complete nonsense. Blood sacrifice and eating of animals is specifically being spoken of in the passage of Zechariah. As well as a physical temple-house in which the sacrifices are made. Does not equate in any way with "you are the sanctuary of God."